Bavarian medal bar with double MVK 2. Klasse!

[Klaus O.]

Dear forumites!

I just got this fantastic medal bar of a senior Bavarian NCO. At first I thought it was quite a weird disposal of the MVK; the first before the EK and the second after, but after having inspected it personally, it really is a beauty! The patina of the medals, especially on the silver MVK 2. Kl. mit Krone und Schwertern (marked 900 GH, Gebrüder Hemmerle), is heavy but gives a lot of character to the bar. Infact, the time has placed a even patina on all the medals. Very strong Brass needle system on the back and red backing very finely sewn to the bar. I don't know however why the wearer has chosen only to put the MVK 2.Kl. mit Kr.u.X before the EK. It must have been quite a personal choice to add a bit of personal character to the bar, not unusual for Bavarians!

Enjoy the pictures.

Ciao,

[Klaus O.]

I wanted only to show the detail of the BMVK 2.Kl. mit Kr. u. X. As you can see the cross has got quite an heavy patina, which doesn't detract anything from the quality of this decoration. The swords, quite strangely, seem to be made out of steel (see the light oxydation). Next to it the Iron Cross 2nd class 1914 whose frames have become very dark, very likely to the long exposition to the sun or light.

Ciao,

[Klaus O.]

The second MVK (2. Kl. mit Schwertern) seem to be made of an alloy, quite different from the first MVK (2. Kl. mit Kr. u. X) and not quite so "sexy"... maybe a later version?

Ciao,

[Klaus O.]

The last 3 medals; you can very well see the heavy patina on the Hungarian WWI commemorative medal and on the Bavarian Long Service Medal, almost black...

[Klaus O.]

On the reverse you can better view the difference of material of the MVKs by the totally different color of the metal and its patina.

Ciao,

[Deruelle]

Hi Claudio,

Very nice medal bar, I love it


Christophe

On the reverse you can better view the difference of material of the MVKs by the totally different color of the metal and its patina.

Ciao,

[Chris Wainwrigh]

Beautiful medal bar Claudio. Thanks for sharing Regards Chris

[stogieman]

Claudio.....

.... I do not think this bar is correct.....
A) Straight top & bottom
B) Brass plate, pin and catch with generic red wool backing
C) no, no, no with the placement of the BMVKs
D) Cannot wear two grades of the same class! A second & a third, sure...
but never, never, never two 2. kl, or 2 3. kl. or 2 1. kl.
E) Badly folded and not right furl to the ribbons
F) Bavarian Long Service, but no Jubilee Medal??? (OK, this is not so bad)

[Blitz]

Good catch Claudio!

[Klaus O.]

Dear Rick,

Here are my answers to your points... Please don't think I was offended by your comments... just wanted to say my opinion.

A) Straight top & bottom

Reply: most Bavarian medal bars have got a straight top or bottom

Here is a couple of examples (first one borrowed from Rick Lundström..)





B) Brass plate, pin and catch with generic red wool backing

Reply: the Brass plate, pin and catch it is really time period. The Bavarians were known to use quite different style of backings, especially very coloured.

Bavarian medal bars with weird backing colours:



Usual were silky White, Bavaria blue or light green backings... Red was definately not common but used.

C) no, no, no with the placement of the BMVKs

Reply: Well, this is weird, but Bavarian did have their own idea of placing medals on their bars.

D) Cannot wear two grades of the same class! A second & a third, sure...
but never, never, never two 2. kl, or 2 3. kl. or 2 1. kl.

Reply: Interesting... do you have the rules that did not allow to wear MVK of the same class but with addition of the crown or swords?

E) Badly folded and not right furl to the ribbons

Reply: I have more or less about 50 medal bars and have some really badly sewn together but original bars. This bar was very well put together. You can hardly see the sewing points. The ribbons have passed the blacklight test and are really old.

There are dozens of examples of medal bars with a simple ribbon style that I can show you:



without medals:




F) Bavarian Long Service, but no Jubilee Medal??? (OK, this is not so bad)

Reply: Service time during WWI counted double. He could have joined the army well after 1905 (Prinz Leopold Jubilee Medal). There was an interesting thread of Rick (Lundström) about it, but I can't find... argggghhhhhhh!!!!

Ciao,

[Klaus O.]

This medal bar had also quite a weird backing color... bottomless, too!

Enjoy!

[Klaus O.]

red, green and white backings! Very colorful!

Ciao,

[stogieman]

Claudio....

... Yes, most (not all) Bavarian Bars have straight tops and bottoms, it is the combination of all of these factors that make your bar (IMO) suspect. Note that the furls on the bars you have shown are quite different than the new one we are discussing.
Note that none of the bars you have shown have (all 3) brass plate, pin and catch.
Note that none of the bars you have show two examples of the same class of the BMVK
Bavarians were bound by the same stringent rules as Prussians and Claudio, you know no Bavarian would mount a war-time prussian decoration in front of a war-time Bavarian one.... You're reaching and ignoring your initial "Gee that's odd" feeling.
With respects to Bavarian regulations, I will leave that to others who hold the statutes to explain (and document) for you.
Anyway you cut it, they could not wear two examples of the same grade. If a soldier won the Second Class Cross with Swords, was then awarded a Second Class with Crown and Swords, the original decoration was turned in to the Orders Chancellry.

[stogieman]

Also....

... note that many of your examples have Prussian style folded ribbons, not Bavarian double-furls. The (IMO) suspect bar of yours is neither.

[stogieman]

And....

... As a Post-1934/35 Medal Bar, Regulations would require the EK2 to be in first place.....