1870 Ekii

[Biro]

Trying again.....

Just to clarify Tim, (or anyone) 39mm for the cross Tim posted above as a COPY would make it large for a prinzen, and small for a standard size would it not?

In addition to the 'match ?' on the Baden bar above, I've found offerings by

Weitze....





Der Rittmeister...




Kai Winkler has one as well,

and I even think this may be a match, the cased one from page 96 of Previtera's Iron Time...





Of course I realise that finding single medal matches on dealer sites/books is in NO way a guarantee of anything, but you'll appreciate why I want to dig a little further with this - and to clarify whether this is definitely the right picture of the cross you saw offered as a COPY

thanks and Regards

Marshall

[Tim Tezer]

To me, the piece on the medal bar doesn't match the example I posted, and I'm not certain that any of the other pieces pictured here (including Marshall's) are exact matches. No reason to panic. As we've mentioned before on this forum, the whole issue is clouded by copies that were made right up to 1918 and beyond, and sold to actual recipients. Even after WW2 one could probably buy an 1870 Iron Cross at some jewelers shops in Germany. The important thing, from my perspective, is that any piece I add to my collection should have enough positives going for it to convince me that it is period, and lead me to a reasonable conclusion as to what period we're talking about. My own 1870 2nd class with oakleaves is definitely not from the 1870's, but I am confident it dates from the late 1890's and that makes it correct with the oakleaves attached. I don't have a problem with that.

As for the measurement of 39mm, that's what I had recorded as given in the catalog description. The file date is March 2000, and I'm fairly certain it was offered by Berliner Auktionhaus, although it could have been Manion's.

Without taking these in hand, I can't absolutely say that any of them are fake. My personal feeling is that if a piece has all of the characteristics I mentioned above, it is probably a copy. Any one of those characteristics, however, does not mean anything by itself. I have seen original 1870s with frames that slightly overlap the W or the numbers on the core, and I have seen a few pieces with really good provenance that have somewhat rounded corners on the frame. I think it is safe to say, however, that any of these characteristics should make you take a second look before buying.

Tim