EK1 1813 - how about the story

[jani_tiainen]

Dear friends,

Who can read German... How about this story with the EK1 1813 at eBay?
Junk or original late manufacture???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6114648777

Jani

[Steve Conway]

Hi Jani,

You can get a German to English translation from babelfish.com, I have had a quick look and the approximate story is that it is a jeweller made 50th anniversary commemoration piece from 1863.

Regards

Steve

[jani_tiainen]

Hi Jani,

You can get a German to English translation from babelfish.com, I have had a quick look and the approximate story is that it is a jeweller made 50th anniversary commemoration piece from 1863.

Regards

Steve

Thanks,

Yes - I can read German but I was wondering is this story / cross really true? And the cross is really from 1860's?

Jani

[Tim Tezer]

I admit I didn't read the whole long story, but looking at the photos, I'm not buying it. I think it looks more like 1993 than 1863.

Tim

[Tiger 1]

Jani,

A very true saying in collecting is "to buy the item and not the story".

The markings are later style as is the silver purity denoted in metric versus the Loth scale. The non stepped core and the WWI era style hinge, pin and catch suggest a 20th century 1813 example or outright copy made from an 1914.

Using Bowen's book as one established reference, he states that metrication was officially introduced in 1868 and that the old silver stamps were still being used into the 1870s. (page 24)

On page 25 Bowen translates a Reichs - Gesetzblatt from January 7, 1886 specifying the stamps to be used on gold and silver items. Here's the pertinant information.

.................................................. .................................................. ..

(1629) Notification regarding the decision of the shape of the stamp and the sign for the standard of gold and silver articles from 7. January, 1886.

With regard to paragraph 3 of the Law about the Hallmark for articles of gold and silver from 16 July, 1884 (Reichs-Gesetzbl. S.120) the Bundesrath (Federal Councillor) makes the following decision:

The Hallmark (stamp,sign) for gold and silver articles has to contain:
1), The State Crown,
2), The sun sign for gold and the crescent moon sign for silver,
3), The declaration of the contents in parts of a thousand,
4), The firm or business with a registered trade mark has by law from 30, November, 1874 to show these signs.

The Crown must
for Gold articles be in the sign of the sun,
for silver articles to the right of the sign of the crescent moon as shown.

Gold Silver

Berlin, the 7th January, 1886.

The Deputy to the Reichskanzlers

von Boetticher

.................................................. .................................................. ....

Bowen credits this original source information as courtesy of the Bundesminiterium fur Wirtschaft, Bonn, Western Germany.


The preceeding info should give you a very good indication that the markings on the 1813 EKI in question, if deemed genuine, would indicate a much later date of manufacture.

I'm very suspicious of the fairly numerous examples of 1813 EKIs that have appeared recently that have similar charactoristics to the one you show. Specifically the non stepped smooth core and the 1914 era style attachment hardware.

I personally wouldn't care to have this in my collection unless it was bought very inexpensively as a copy. I hope this helps you some.

Just some thoughts from my corner,

Tony

[Tiger 1]

I just had to look at this cross again to clarify if what I originally saw was correct. Yup! My eyesight is still okay but the old brain needs a kickstart every now and then. The first mark on the left on the pin looks to be the crown in the circle (sun) stamp to denote a GOLD article. The top and bottom of the circle are missing due to it being stamped on the curve of the pin.

How much more bogus can you get?

Tony

[Sonderkommando]

Also the patina on this cross is artificial.

This is achieved by dipping the whole cross in a particular solution and it chemically blackens the core as well. You will probably find that the core on this one is non-painted, chemically blackened as well. Even if it is a painted core, the chemical can be applied by brush around the frame. Usually you would gently polish the fake patina back to a more believable finish than in the one pictured.

Cheers,
Brett

[Brian S]

Wellner? I wouldn't touch it. But good clear photos for the files.