Are these WW1?http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&d=1350347372
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Yes, they are. M15 Prussian Leutnant. I'm not sure what it is. Red underlay on a M15 normally indicates field artillery. The only field artillery boards without the flaming bomb were Bavarian and this is not Bavarian. So, for the moment, I'm stymied.
Chip -
Another member (tmca05) says they are Infanterie-Regiment Prinz Friedrich der Niederlande (2. Westfälisches) Nr 15. The regiment was founded during the Napoleonic Wars in 1813. It was garrisoned at Minden and assigned to the VII. Armeekorps.Comment
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Jim,Originally posted by SteelhelmJim View Post
That person would be wrong. They are just going by the number on the boards. M15 infantry boards for the most part have a white underlay. IR 15 was not an exception. And even if this were an earlier subdued version of the M10 officer's board, it would have the blue underlay of the VII A.K..
ChipComment
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Chip,
I agree. It is a mystery. There are no signs of there having been anything else attached to the boards, and the wear marks from the numbers and buttons suggest that they had/have been there for a long time. Of course, considering the wide variety, and configurations, of numbers, letters, symbols and buttons on shoulder boards, perhaps this is just an anomaly, such as an artillery officer moving to IR 15 and attaching numbers to his old shoulder boards, or maybe the bomb or gun symbols were not available when he was attached to AR 15. Is this possible? I suppose anything is. The numbers are in the middle of the boards, instead of towards the shoulder edge, as I would think they would be, if there was going to be a symbol attached between the button and the numbers. Have you ever seen anything like this before?
JimComment
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Jim,
I have no doubt that the numbers are original to the board and that it was worn that way.
Another thing I might mention is that the numbers are a larger size than one would normally see on a field board from this period. Normal numbers are either 18 or 20mm tall. These appear larger?
These are not M15's per the September 1915 regulations. As I mentioned the possibility earlier, they are early war subdued versions. Prior to the September regulations, subdued officer's boards were being offered and worn. The black darts without the accompanying white darts rules out the M1915. These early war types normally had a subdued metallic finish with numbers that were also toned down, but not painted feldgrau, as were the later ones. This makes more sense with the red underlay. I can therefore surmize that these are pioneer officer's boards from the 15th pioneer battalion from the XV A.K..
ChipComment
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Chip,
That makes sense. The XV A.V. would have had pioneer battalions, and pioneers would have been attached to artillery, explaining the red backing, thus the 15th Pioneer Battalion, attached to artillery of the XV A.K. I think you've nailed it Chip.
Thanks ever so much,
JimComment
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Jim,
There is no association with the artillery. Red was the the traditional color of the pioneers, before the artillery took this color in 1915. Before 1915, most field artillery units used the color of their particular army corps.
ChipComment
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Chip,
I guess I was misguided by an line from an article about military pioneers on Wikipedia.
This was the line:
"Pioneers were originally part of the artillery branch of European armies. Subsequently, they formed part of the engineering branch, in the logistic branch, part of the infantry; or comprised a branch in their own right."
Not true?
JimComment
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Jim,
I was not speaking of the historical association with the artillery, just the underlay color. As mentioned, the underlay of the majority of field artillery regiments before 1915 was not red.
ChipComment
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Chip,
I see. Thanks again.
JimComment
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