Fake 1813???

[Rolf D.]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2263912428

[Eric Stahlhut]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2263912428

Orange rust is new rust and a danger sign, IMO. The hinge and pin are scary.

Money might be better spent investing in my scheme to start a Waterski Academy for Squirrels....PM me for details!

[Rolf D.]

I had that feeling too, looks Latviany (is that a correct term? If not, I made a new word!)

[Doug See]

The Latvians don't have the skill to make this. (They never did--they only sell the fakes made in other Euripean countries through one or two grave robbing and helmet peddling crooks). Believe this is a late copy.

[George Stimson]

Are my eyes off, or does that seem more TR shaped than Imperial?

[Tim Tezer]

The pin looks very much like a Godet Imperial piece. I hope they didn't scavenge one to make this. The catch looks like a piece of scrap metal, and all the color and patina on it is pretty phony. It could be a circa 1913 centenary piece, but as such it really wouldn't be worth any more than a 1914 EK1 - possibly less.

Tim

[EKman]

This strikes me as one of those modern lazer cut copies.

[Brian S]

LEGAL
STOPDROPAUCTION IS NOT THE OWNER OR SELLER OF THESE GOODS, BUT MERELY A BAILEE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE SELLER TO FACILITATE THE SALE OF THE GOODS BY HOLDING THE GOODS UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A SALE IS COMPLETED AND THE GOODS ARE SHIPPED TO THE BUYER. STOPDROPAUCTION WARRANTEES AND REPRESENTS THAT THE GOODS ARE AS THEY ARE DESCRIBED IN THE ABOVE LISTING. WE WILL ACCEPT RETURNS OF THE GOODS ONLY IF THEY FAIL TO MEET THE DESCRIPTIONS ABOVE. STOPDROPAUCTION SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. Some states do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties, so the foregoing disclaimer may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other legal rights that vary from state to state.

[Tim Tezer]

Brian,

The reason for all that mumbo-jumbo is that "Stopdropauction" is a company providing a service, not a seller. The idea was that they would put up Ebay listings for a fee for those who don't have the time or know-how to put up their own postings. Of course, it means that the real seller is completely anonymous. Convenient, eh?

Tim

[Brian S]

I understood completely. Didn't think my words were needed. Yes, very convenient. It's much more professional than " ALL SALES FINAL "

[Doug See]

Yep, terrible item. Stay away from it!

[Tiger 1]

I love these guys! Their description covers all the bases.

Imperial German 1813-1870-1914 1st Class Iron Cross.

The description tells you all you need to know. I just love to retro engineer these attempts at making something it's not. He's my take on this 181318701914EKI.

It probably started life as a 1914 era EKI with a Meybauer type hinge and pin for starters. This sacrificial cross was most likely missing the original catch and may have been in poor shape to begin with. The side hooks were insipired by an 1870 EKI. Hey, if you are going for it why not make it just that more interesting. The front was smoothed out to suggest an 1813. The fresh rusting is likely caused by not thoroughly cleaning/neutralising the flux out from under the resoldered frame. The weird color (patina?!) on the reverse can be due to heat from soldering the frame, the side hooks and the catch or from too much flux that flowed over the backplate.

This type of "1813" is fairly easy to make for someone with rudimentary jewelry making skills but fails the test with close scrutiny of the details. Too bad that there isn't a weight and measurements shown.

An interesting try at a filler about as genuine as the ole Kaiser having two good arms.

Tony

[Doug See]

Whatever it is, and no matter how you want to analyze the photos, theorize, and thumop your chest, you'll never know 'til you hold it in your hand. If I'd have passed on all the EK's I thought were below standard in internet .jpg, I wouldn't have a collection.

[Tiger 1]

Whatever it is, and no matter how you want to analyze the photos, theorize, and thumop your chest, you'll never know 'til you hold it in your hand. If I'd have passed on all the EK's I thought were below standard in internet .jpg, I wouldn't have a collection.

Doug,

I've been a bit busy with family business and didn't see this till now. I understand what you are saying about holding a specific cross in hand for a close up analysis versus what is shown in pictures. I myself on ocassions take the long shot odds that something may look better in hand but do you really think that this cross is genuine? There are just too many readily visable inconsistancies compared with a genuine period cross. We sometimes forget that genuine 1813's, especially the EKIs are flat out rare!

There's another similar cross being discussed currently on the forum above.

All the best,

Tony

[Doug See]

Tony, I honestly don't know what to make of it. From the photos, it looks like a well made piece, whatever it's provenance. I just wouldn't dismiss it until I had it in hand. 1813's are rare, but there are so many late ones, commemorative ones, copies, museum displays, etc. etc. and they were all made over a long time period of over 150 years. Just because something doesn't look like a piece shown in The Iron Time, doesn't mean it's not valid. This one appears to be an 1870's-1920's style piece. If it's well made, it still has a certain historical and intrinsic value. Or, it could be a cobbled together piece--how can we say for sure until we examine it? It just kind of irks me to see everyone pass judgment based on .jpg's posted on eBay or a forum. People often take this forum as "gospel" when it certainly isn't. There are many very experienced collectors here, but there's also an awful lot of "mob mentality", too.