800 2nd Class Iron Cross

[RonR]

Recently acquired.....



.......

[RonR]

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[saschaw]

Maker mark might be "Fr.", right? The cross then is possibly by jewellers Friedländer of Berlin.

[Rommel1933]

Ron,

Agree w/ Saschaw.... Here are the F's... Courtesy of GMIC link below!

thank you,
Scott

F - Fehermann, Berlin
FO - Friedrich Orth, Wien(?)
Fr - Friedlander & Co, Berlin

Fr 800 - Friedlander & Co, Berlin

Fr W - Friedlander & Co, Berlin
FR - Friedrich Rothe, Wien
FW - Franz Xaver Wimmer

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/46...k-2-ring-mark/

[saschaw]

I did comment this phantasy maker list back then over there, as I'm doing it every time they're posted somewhere.

[Montgomery Burns]

I did comment this phantasy maker list back then over there, as I'm doing it every time they're posted somewhere.

i know that feeling




regards kay
my site :

[Rommel1933]

I did comment this phantasy maker list back then over there, as I'm doing it every time they're posted somewhere.

Hi Saschaw,

So this list isn't good? I never heard this before and have used it as reference.......

Thank you, Scott

[Montgomery Burns]

Hi Saschaw,

So this list isn't good? I never heard this before and have used it as reference.......

Thank you, Scott

the list is an assumption,,,,,,,,,,

someone took known jeweler names and linked them to the found marks ..
by looking at similar first letters in the names

theres no solid foundation with period documents,,,

frame comparing attempts are also under pressure ( if done at all )
as production tooling may come from the same provider in many occasions .
not to mention the retailer possibility's


but there is light at the end off the tunnel ...

they're are some 100% known and identified crosses ,( by period evidence )

some off them not even on you're list


regards kay

[Rommel1933]

Hi Kay, Thank you for the time to answer and the great information. I also wondered about the point you made about production tooling coming from the same equipment manufacturer. I figured it would be very unlikely each Maker would create their own die from scratch etc... I wonder if there are any documents yet to be discovered that could show invoices or such from the manufacturer, buyer/gov't agency that could show the specs or Maker Marks.. Anyway, good information you send.. thank you, Scott

[saschaw]

Kay did explain it yet well.



From the list in the link, I choose some for further explanations:

- "Emanuel Wolff, Carlsruhe", was a early 19th century maker of embroided breast stars. Same is for "Fehermann, Berlin", is Fehrmann is meant. Early to mid-19th century embroided breast star maker.

Now, what do early 19th century silver embroiders have to do with WW1 era stamped iron and steel... you're right, totally nothing!

- "Königliches Münzamt, Berlin" did not produce any EK, as prooven by work in their archive. "Preußische Staatsmünze" is the same, so as wrong as.

- Hossauer from Berlin sold his firm in 1859 to Emil August Wagner, (later) Sy & Wagner, and no yonger items with Hossauer's mark are known. Similar for Quellhorst from Munich, who was out of business (and presumably life, too) for a while when WW1 started.

Not saying the rest of the list is right. Most isn't. But these are just a few that leaped out at me, and that I used to show these list's "quality".

Unfortunately, there is no better one, and it doesn't make much sense to start one, as most (90%) of the attributions are guessed.

[Tom Yanacek]

Nice cross, Ron.

Here is an silver marked 1914 EK2 that I picked up last month. But this one is made by Carl Dillenius of Pforzheim and marked 'CD800'.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

suspension ring marking:

[Montgomery Burns]

Hi Kay, Thank you for the time to answer and the great information. I also wondered about the point you made about production tooling coming from the same equipment manufacturer. I figured it would be very unlikely each Maker would create their own die from scratch etc... I wonder if there are any documents yet to be discovered that could show invoices or such from the manufacturer, buyer/gov't agency that could show the specs or Maker Marks.. Anyway, good information you send.. thank you, Scott

cant say to much about it yet ,but
there certainly are official documents being looked at about this .
dont know the outcome yet


the advertisement is just another finger point in that direction



regards kay