1914 EK made before or after 1918?

[Jeroen P]

Is there a way to know whether a 1914 EK1 or EK2 was made before or after 1918?
I've searched the forum for an answer, but I couldn't find one (although I must admit I didn't try that hard)


Concerning the paint of a WW2 helmet, for example, it's very important whether it was applied before or after 1945.

But as for 1914 Iron Crosses, collectors and sellers don't really seem to care whether a cross was made and awared during WW1 itself,
and they hardly ever bring up the subject.

But for me it makes a difference, I think a 1914 EK is worth much more if the soldier wore it in his pocket or on his uniform, if it "was there".
An EK made in the 1920's is much less interesting in my opinion. That's the point about Iron Crosses for me, they were awarded DURING the war,
unlike commemoration medals for example.

So, does it make a difference for collectors if a 1914 EK was made during the war? And how can you spot such crosses?
While I'm on the subject, can anybody tell me if my 1914 EK2 is pre- or post 1918? It is not maker marked.

many thanks!
Jeroen

[saschaw]

I think there is not definite rule... some crosses are WW1 era for sure, others are post-WW1 for sure, and with many, we just don't know for sure if they're from 1917, 1918, 1919 or 1920...

One fact that might be unknown to you: the awards of the 1914 EK did not stop until 1924!

[Montgomery Burns]

Sascha explained it correctly .


and to me ...
owning a cross out off the pocket off some soldier is such a debatable subject ,

its best to collect certain types off production era's and time frame
rather then believe in what was in someone pocket at one point in time .

well and most imperial crosses are time framed right solid more or less .

I think studying More threads would make you see that .

dont think the imperial collector dont care

regards kay

[Jeroen P]

both replies are very interesting, thanks!

[saschaw]

both replies are very interesting, thanks!

Gladly! I forgot to mention the cross shown is very likely WW1 era.

[Jeroen P]

Gladly! I forgot to mention the cross shown is very likely WW1 era.

[phild]

I think there is not definite rule... some crosses are WW1 era for sure, others are post-WW1 for sure, and with many, we just don't know for sure if they're from 1917, 1918, 1919 or 1920...

One fact that might be unknown to you: the awards of the 1914 EK did not stop until 1924!

I think that it is a safe bet to say that very very many of the post Nov 1918 awards and private sale decorations were actually wartime left over items not to mention how many thousands were assembled from wartime parts and simply continued to made the same way as they were during the war.....so I agree that this is very muddy water to try and see through.

Up into the 30s its gets easier as there were changes generally in the industry by then....15-20 years or so after the war with materials and pin fabrication.

On the other hand I'm not at all sure that the demand for private purchase awards was that big in the scheme of things during the 20s and I agree that there are some examples that I feel 100 safe in saying were wartime made and worn.

[morel5000]

Your ek has been pinned to a board or display. I like it.

Best regards,
Michel

[gregM]

I believe it would be very very difficult to determine exactly which cross
is a war time awarded cross and which is not without some sort of
provenance .

Of all my crosses, I have only one that I know is a wartime awarded piece.
One that was given to me by the widow of the ww1 vet who picked it up.
Notice the blood stained ribbon--

[jbmilitaryantiq]

I believe that the mid 1930's to mid 1940's made 1914 iron crosses take on a similar size frame as the 1939 iron crosses. I also notice that many of these larger framed examples don't have a makers stamp to the suspension ring. I have not read this in any reference, but it sort of makes sense if you compare the 1939 ek's with the large framed 1914 ek's, the frame looks very similar.

Jamey

[Don D.]

Since the 1939 series crosses didn't appear until Sep 39 you can rule out the mid 30s as a reference point. Its not just the outside of the frame got larger either. Early 1939 crosses used the same frames as the 1914 crosses. The shape of the arms/inner corners of the frame made the manufacturers use a small swaz. Hitler decreed the cross should be larger than the old series, from 42mm to 44mm. This made the opening larger so a larger swaz could be displayed.

[phild]

I agree with the above observations on the 39 production characteristics.

I also have to go back and suggest that there must have been many thousands...maybe many tens of thousands of EKII's in stock at the end of WWI and that many again in un-assembled parts and stock awaiting fabrication in all of the makers.......Even with the continued awards during the 20s I would think that most of those offered for sale were basically wartime crosses until at least into the 30s. There may have been a small market for high finished crosses for gifts and medal bars...and the like.

[morel5000]

Very cool ek Greg

[Montgomery Burns]

I agree with the above observations on the 39 production characteristics.

I also have to go back and suggest that there must have been many thousands...maybe many tens of thousands of EKII's in stock at the end of WWI and that many again in un-assembled parts and stock awaiting fabrication in all of the makers.......Even with the continued awards during the 20s I would think that most of those offered for sale were basically wartime crosses until at least into the 30s. There may have been a small market for high finished crosses for gifts and medal bars...and the like.

that is absolutely correct ,,

its absolutely plausible that there was a stock at every jeweler or producer after the war
plausible to ,,,would be a huge stock in every generals hight command as well as all other official places involved
collectors marked would be there as well around 1928 ,,,(I know there was fore the 1870 already )
and ,,,the victors where basically dissembling Germany and would not go home without they're prices ,,,like Iron crosses ,

tja ,,and walking around in uniform became also popular again around the end off 1920,,,as Nazism started to emerge ,,so veteran replacements and needs would pickup to

producing iron crosses never stopped after 1918 ,,
just went on,,,, on a different level .

you are absolutely correct

regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

Since the 1939 series crosses didn't appear until Sep 39 you can rule out the mid 30s as a reference point. Its not just the outside of the frame got larger either. Early 1939 crosses used the same frames as the 1914 crosses. The shape of the arms/inner corners of the frame made the manufacturers use a small swaz. Hitler decreed the cross should be larger than the old series, from 42mm to 44mm. This made the opening larger so a larger swaz could be displayed.

not in all cases Don