Ribbon Bar Question

[Robert Noss]

Today was a very good day at a local fleamarket.

Here's an overview from my "booty" + some newspapers and books which are not shown here.


My question concerns the two medal bars, which are from one person:



One is with a pin, the other not - could it been sewed onto the tunic ?



What is that decoration on the far right ?



Together with the bars was this Kriegsmarine identity disc, so we know the name of the owner:



The LDO case also belonged to that person, it is for the 1939 clasp to the IC 1914 1st class. It was empty, but one can see the shape of the award very good.

Any infos highly appreciated, also about value as these do not go into the own collection.

Kind regards
Robert

[Klaus O.]

Hi Robert!

Nice worn ribbon bars you got... both of the same wearer:

6 place ribbon bar:

- EK 2. Kl. 1914
- KVK 1939, 2. Kl. mit Schwertern
- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer
- Schleisischer Adler, Bewährungsabzeichen der 2. Klasse
- Ungarische Erinnerungsmedaille 1. WK, für Frontkämpfer (mit Schwertern... kaputt gegangen oder entfernt)
- Finnland, Orden des Freiheitskreuzes (1918), Kreuz 4. Kl. mit Schwertern

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

That's actually the THIRD Class Finnish Cross of Liberty-- GILT device. No Xs were actually NEEDED on the Hungarian WWI Commemorative Medal ribbon, since that design was only for the combatants' version of the medal.

Hans-Albrecht Wrede was born 10 August 1893. Served in the Imperial navy 1.4.13--24.11.19:

Lt zS ernannt 18.9.15 (14.10.17)
char. Oberleutnant zS aD 24.11.19

During the war he served on S.M.S. "Albatross" to February 1915, then on "Hamburg" to July 1915, and finally on "Kolberg" until October 1918-- when he was sent as Adjutant of the Marine-Schule in Sonderburg (whatever that was for!!!).

In the February 1918 Marine Rangliste he had the EK2.

He joined the Naval Officers' Association (M.O.V.) as Mitglied Nr. 3885--

in 1928 and 1931 he was a Sachverständiger für Kraftfahrzeuge, Kraftfahrzeug-Überwachungsdienst, as Oberlt aD. 1935 he was not listed. --->

1937 he reappears as "Kapitänleutnant aD" (Na, Herr Canarrrrrrris?????) as owner of an Ingenieurbüro in Prenzlau (Uckermark) and sure enough

BEFORE the war, he shows up as "Kapitänleutnant zV" AND Sachverständiger der Deutschen Rechtsfront für Kraftfahrzeuge, Kraftverkehr, Frage der Binnenschiffahrt at 13 Adolf-Hitler-Ufer, Prenzlau. (Telefon 727 if you want to try ringing him! )

He was married, but alas no wife's data, since he was NOT listed in the 1960 or 1963 Directories.

[Robert Noss]

Rick and Claudio - thanks a lot for the profound answers.

When I can trust the man on the fleamarket who has sold that group, Wrede was his grandfather. The paper bag for the silver wound badge was also part of the deal.
But as Wrede has got no IC 1st class in the 1st WW, it is unlikely that the LDO case for the clasp belonged to Wrede. Anyhow, people on fleamarkets sell what they find at home in old boxes and it is not necessarily always from one person. As a matter of fact the ribbon bars and identity disc belong together.
On the 6 place bar the swords device on the hungarian award are missing, but had been there earlier. The device on the finish award has only been on the 6 place bar, on the 5 place bar there was no device.
The dog-tag is a very small one, measures 33 x 50 millimetres and is made from aluminium. I have read in the series about german dog-tags in the french Militaria-Magazine that the Kriegsmarine used this style.
Does anybody know why they used these smaller tags ?

Kind regards
Robert

[Rick Research]

Wrede might well have gotten the EK1 in 1917/8-- the Naval Listen were often 6 to 9 months late in printing awards-- in one case I have seen documents for, an officer's German award from 1916 had still not made it into the February 1918 List! That's why it is not always possible to identify groups from incomplete data.

I am surprised he had ANY device for his Finnish CoL. They are almost never found on German ribbons-- not enough of them to have made much sense to stock, I suppose. Like my Dr. Bachem group, this shows he was in Finland AFTER the fighting with Bolshevik Russian officlaly stopped in mid-1918. "Kolberg"'s service in the Baltic fits with such an award.

There is a book that has many but not ALL Kriegsmarine officers in it for WW2-- I don't have it. It is possible that Wrede may turn up there if he was in a command position (transport, presumably, if not Abwehr).

I wish you had found his Wehrpass etc-- PRE-September 1939 "zV" officers are quite strange creatures and I wish I knew WHY they held that status BEFORE the war. Wrede got himself an unexplained promotion between 1931 and 1937 which means he was "called up" for SOMETHING out of the usual.

[Diesel]

Wrede was born in Blindow, Prenzlau.

In Rangliste 1922 and 1923 there is a Wrede, but without first name. He was Leiter der Marineversorgungsstelle Swinemünde both years.

1.5.1942 Korvettenkapitän z.V.

08.39-11.39 HS-Fl. Swinemünde
11.39-04.40 Hafenwachkompagnie, Swinemünde, Chef
05.40-09.40 Course
09.40-11.40 "Monte Sarmiento"
11.40-07.41 Battr. Chef, Hela
08.41-10-41 Heeresgruppe Nord, Sonderkommando
10.41-06.43 Marine Artillerie Regiment 119, Kdr. and Artillerie Kdr. Hela
06.43-11.43 25. U-Flottilla, Stabsoffizier b. Stabe
11.43-09.44 Marine Artillerie Regiment 520, Kdr. and by Stab Seekommandant Kreta, Artillerieoffizier
10.44-04.45 Marine Artillerie Regiment 522

Regards
Diesel

[Rick Research]

Ain't the internet wonderful!

"Monte Sarmiento" (Hamburg-South American Steamship Line, 1924, 13,625 tons) bombed in Kiel harbor 26.2.42 and so badly damaged, scrapped in Hamburg 1943.

[landsknechte]

During the war he served on S.M.S. "Albatross" to February 1915, then on "Hamburg" to July 1915, and finally on "Kolberg" until October 1918-- when he was sent as Adjutant of the Marine-Schule in Sonderburg (whatever that was for!!!).

If I'm reading this right, he'd have been elgible for the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross if he had only stayed on the SMS Hamburg a few months (until September) longer? It wasn't "retroactive"?

--Chris