PLM help!!

[schönbeck]

Pics are crap but can anyone immediately spot if this is a fake or not.
Its marked with a "W"

[Tim Tezer]

It's only a fake if someone says it's real.

I would call it a reproduction... or perhaps "toy" would be a better word.

Tim

[schönbeck]

got some better pics from him, just want to be sure its bad....

[schönbeck]

also, is the value close to zero or is it worth something??

[K Bandow]

I would say a very fine and old Jeweler's copy.

[Erich B.]

Looks like the no foot variety of reproduction. They're nicer than some, and were produced in silver gilt and in bronze gilt. I would say they're worth more than a modern copy (they were made in the late 60s through the 80s, I believe) but when you see them in person, you can tell. Usually they're marked also on the obverse of the fan with an 800 if it's a silver version.
Erich

[Brian S]

PlM was not turquoise, it was a rich blue. You'll also find the original case to be somewhat less of a quality box than you might expect.

[Tim Tezer]

It's definitely 60's or 70's construction. I have seen these either unmarked or marked "925". They are sometimes offered as 20's or 30's jeweler's copies, but unfortunately there is probably not a single reproduction that has not been passed off as a 20's/30's era piece, even if there is no evidence to support the claim. This particular variety is distinguishable by the very tall, somewhat shapeless eagles. I have seen quite a number of them on the market, so they are not rare, but as a copy they are close to the quality of the Steinhauer and Lueck pieces (which are still the most accurate copies to date, in spite of the missing feet). Value is perhaps $100 to $200, or whatever the market will bear(?)

There was one of these on Ebay one time in a case marked "Wilm", which was kind of interesting because Wilm was an official court jeweller to the Prussian court. Wilm has been the official maker of the Pour le Merite for Arts & Sciences since it was reinstituted in the 1960's. I recently contacted Wilm, who are now located in Hamburg, to see if they had any records of manufacturing the military badges of the Pour le Merite, but they had no information whatsoever. For my own purposes, I have come to refer to these copies as the "Wilm type", but since Wilm has no information about making them, that may not be accurate.

Tim

[Daniel Cole]

Check Nicholas Morigi:

http://www.nicholasmorigi.com/catalogue.php?sid=AWARDS%20AND%20DECORATIONS

This should answer you questions.

[Brian S]

...but unfortunately there is probably not a single reproduction that has not been passed off as a 20's/30's era piece, even if there is no evidence to support the claim.

Truer words never were spoken. Collectors wish to believe PlM winners had a full size PlM for every suit and every day of the week and another for special holidays. Not the case.

The full size was rarely, rarely worn except on that occasion which required full uniform. In all other occasions the mini-PlM was worn or just the mini ribbon device. Even with enamel breaks and minor damage, the original was always worn. That sort of identity to the original awards passed down to the likes of Hans Rudel who wore his original awards to the point of damage to his RK, so what.

No replacements here...

[schönbeck]

HI
Thanks Guys!!!
It comes from a vet estate, there was several good items there, ground röhm, lw daggers and so on....
But this could be a added piece to the collection.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...Brian, perhaps you have an explanation and help me on this. I have an identical PLM as yours with matching miniature from the same owner.

Also my miniature has crowns on the eagles, do you know why this so often occurs. I would expect them crownless.

Pieter.

[Brian S]

I don't think the crowns on the mini eagles are so unusual. Mine, I believe, are also wearing the crowns. This is of no confusion to the crown device for 50 years service past PlM award.

I should have said, "for living 50 years beyond award date".

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Thank you,

Pieter.

[Tim Tezer]

Check Nicholas Morigi:

http://www.nicholasmorigi.com/catalogue.php?sid=AWARDS%20AND%20DECORATIONS

This should answer you questions.

Daniel,

Excellent fielding, and a double-play at that! This explains the Wilm case - they are probably just making the cases, not the crosses themselves. The standard case that he offers is made by Mueller. And little did I know that these PLMs are still being made today!

Tim