Richthofen signed material

[Jeremy]

In the pinned Marseille thread (post #152), Gary mentioned this:

I used to own a couple of Richtofen signed Sanke cards bought from you know who and they showed the same characteristics as the Marseille items. I was looking at selling one particular card a couple of years ago, so I sent it over to a well respected auction house in the US by the name of RR Auctions. After inspection, they promptly sent it back with a 'thanks but no thanks' message. They didn't say it was a fake, but they didn't need to.

After finding no shortage of examples, it has become obvious like Marseille, Hartmann etc, that there is a modern, dodgy style of Richthofen signature which is in abundant supply. I have attached the start of examples of signatures indicative of this dodgy style on the usual clippings from 'you know who' and show two clear examples in close up (these are supposedly nearly 100 years old!!).

[Jeremy]

Fakes on foto

More fake Richthofen on foto. The thing about these factory sigs is that they are now prevalent enough to be thought of as the real deal (just like Marseille).

The one in close up was for sale on militaria321 recently and had a few bidders... 400 euros it reached.

[Jeremy]

hmmm

Browsing through this forum I found this info from Ralf on a related thread:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Sig...item4ab6cd4dc7

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=richthofen

This is identical to the fake sig that I show in the previous post in close up which was for sale on militaria321 very recently without frame. Very strange...

[Jeremy]

hmmm

And a mixed bag of sigs here for Richthofen in a previous thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=richthofen

sigs shown in posts #4 and #5 are BS. still exploring the others...

[Jeremy]

mixed bag

regarding my last post about the WAF thread given... this sig in post #1 is mentioned and was for sale on ebay (posted here too):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2509498659...84.m1438.l2649

Seller states:

Signed boldly in fountain pen ink on his book plate image. Please see photos and especially the signature close ups.

and look at what I noticed comparing the sig on that book photo (post #1) with another sig signed (I think) in another book (post #2)... exactly identical! impossible?!

[WilhelmKLM]

While I agree with Jeremy's assertion that these are probably not genuine and that no one should be buying a Richtofen signed document off of ebay?? hello?? I do want to point out the comparisons that Jeremy did with the ebay sig vs. the sig found in a book. At first glance they do in fact appear to be identical, but closer examination reveals something else. If you look closely at the transition on the letter "F" in sig #1, Richthofen signs with a slightly open loop at the top of the letter that is not seen in sig #2
If you look closely on the period following the letter "V" (abbreviated for Von of course) the period is slightly underscored in the #1 sig where that does not appear in the #2 sig
The letter "E" in sig#1 transitioning from the letter "F" is much more thicker then in sig#2
With copying and scanning and whatever else these two sigs went through to get posted here on the forum can greatly reduce the ability to analyze sigs such as these but in the business of validating a known sig compared to a non-verified sig, these are just some of the subtle clues that could turn a dud into a gem or a gem into a dud. Again, I wouldnt be buying a Richthofen signed anything unless it was bought in person and by a well known collector. Just my opinion chaps! Thanks for listening

[WilhelmKLM]

1

[Jeremy]

nope

nope, they are copied sigs. whatever process was carried out to copy the book sig has minisculy affected the sig. i am not saying the book sig is authentic, but it has been certainly copied onto the picture of richthofen.

[Rommel1933]

Really interesting thread... thank you Jeremy for taking the time to show and educate us on these!

Thank you, Scott

[Jeremy]

autographed hoffmann card

this is an amusing/interesting signed postcard for sale at the moment...

http://vintage-stars.eshop.t-online....Products/WW006

it is a signature on Hoffmann card #1548 showing von Richthofen. of course, Hoffmann cards such as this were produced well after WW1... oh dear.

[Jeremy]

Update

I recently found you can choose from 19(!!!!) clippings of fake factory Richthofen signature:

5:

http://www.aviationartgallery.co.uk/...-biff-boys.htm

14:

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.u...Signature=1440

An absolute scam from the fake factory.

[Jeremy]

More

Here is another with modern ink.

[Jeremy]

again

And here is the seller, the same person responsible for selling the proven-as-fake Marseille combat reports he also stated were undeniably authentic.

[Jeremy]

more

And more of the same fake crap recently surfacing... the empty page with signature is typical of the fake factory...

[Jeremy]

more

and more crap (one on left shown in small size earlier)...