Ebay.de paypal issue?

[Brian L.]

I would just like to give a warning about selling on eBay Germany for anyone considering it.

When you sell an item, eBay Germany re-directs payment from your PayPal account to an account called eBay Services S.a.r.l. where it is held until you ship your item.

There is no way for the seller to track this payment. eBay Germany essentially holds the seller hostage. You must show proof of shipping and then they will pay you. Otherwise the wait for payout can be as much as 6 weeks.
This is a rather evil way for eBay Germany to make interest on other people's money.

This has happened to me in 7 cases in the past week. I refused to ship until I saw a payment into my PayPal account forcing me to cancel transactions and contact buyers to directly pay into my PayPal account. Many buyers were very cooperative. But, several German buyers got rather nasty, refused to cancel the transactions, even after I explained in detail and sent them the comments from eBay US about this illegal policy. This ended up costing me fees on money I never received. I should point out that eBay US, the parent company and PayPal both told me that this practice is a clear violation of eBay policy. PayPal is supposed to be the only holder of funds.

This explains why many sellers on eBay Germany refuse to use PayPal and want only wire transfers, because essentially funds are hijacked by eBay Germany and you don't see them for a long time. After this happened, I discovered that there are many sellers and buyers complaining about this practice on the Internet.

If I sell again, I will only use eBay USA. eBay Germany clearly has its own agenda, which amounts to theft. It does not work either in the seller's or buyer's favour because it creates all kinds of transaction problems.

[Chris Boonzaier]

If I sell again, I will only use eBay USA. eBay Germany clearly has its own agenda, which amounts to theft. It does not work either in the seller's or buyer's favour because it creates all kinds of transaction problems.

Maybe its because you are in hanoi?

I have never had a problem paying or buying over german Ebay. I know of noone else where this is done?

Best
Chris

[Brian L.]

Maybe its because you are in hanoi?

I have never had a problem paying or buying over german Ebay. I know of noone else where this is done?

Best
Chris

There are actually many sellers who have had this problem, recently. There are online blogs about payments being re-directed to eBay Services in Luxembourg and held for long periods of time.

Before the New Year, I never had a problem like this selling on eBay Germany. It only started in the last 2 weeks.

I haven't had any problems buying on eBay Germany, so far either. But, as a seller, I've started to have huge problems. In contrast, I don't have any problems selling on eBay US, so will switch to there.

You probably haven't had any problems because your sellers have been content to wait for payment from eBay Services, or ship through shipping companies with tracking. I use the post office and only send via registered mail.

I assure you that I am not alone in this. When I spoke with customer service in the US, they had already had many complaints about this problem from other sellers who sell in Europe.

[tankredi]

I am selling on ebay Germany.

I do get paypal payment immediately, no delay no problems.

Since when are you registered on ebay?
Since when do you work with paypal?


AFAIK they hold your payment back only if you are a new ebay/paypal member or if you had too much negative feedback in the past.

[Bhokara]

Ebay Germany plays by very different rules. Ebay USA customer service is reluctant to comment on the differences, but you can tell from the tone of voice that they disapprove of the whole Ebay Germany business model. One of the major differences is that PayPal is mandaory in order to sell on Ebay USA, but not on Ebay Germany.

I have noticed in the last 2-3 years, more German sellers are (reluctantly) accepting PayPal now (but more than half only when you agree to pay the PayPalGebuhr yourself). But there are still many who won't take it. Much of this is the traditional German resistance to anything new in the world of money.

When I was living there in the 90's, it was hard to find a business in the USA which did not accept credit cards, and impossible to find a business in Germany which did. Germany was at least 20 years behind the rest of the world on credit cards. Germans also don't like PayPal because in Germany, you can transfer money between your bank account and somebody else's bank account intantly and without any fees. So PayPal, which takes longer in many cases AND takes 4% of the money, is worse than their own way of doing business by Ueberweisung.

In general, German Ebay can be a source of rare material which pops up occasionally, but you really have to talk to the sellers first and get everything laid out and understood in advance. The Germans can be very verkalkt in their thinking, and German sellers can get away with a lot of crap they would get banned for in the US system -- like refusing to sell an item if the realized price was too low, which has happened to me. Basically, it's a minefield, and a very expensive one at that.

[Mac 66]

Never ever had a problem buying from ebay.de & will continue to buy from Germany

[Brian L.]

I am selling on ebay Germany.

I do get paypal payment immediately, no delay no problems.

Since when are you registered on ebay?
Since when do you work with paypal?


AFAIK they hold your payment back only if you are a new ebay/paypal member or if you had too much negative feedback in the past.

Are you in Germany? That might make a big difference.


I have been on PayPal for 9 years and eBay for about 2 years.

I don't have any problem buying on German eBay.

I didn't used to have problems selling on German eBay, either.

I have never had negative feedback and am at 100%.

Suddenly all my payments started being re-directed to eBay Services S.a.r.l. this past week. They do not provide any way to track payments and send out threatening emails demanding you ship immediately or you'll not get paid out.

There are a lot of complaints online about this practice, which is a violation of eBay transaction rules. I'm certainly not the only person this has happened to.

An eBay US manager told me they've had lots of complaints from sellers on eBay Germany who are mostly like me: non-German, not located in Germany or Europe and who are having their payments re-directed to eBay Services.
This apparently is a unilateral policy set up by eBay Germany and strongly disapproved of by the parent company.
Unfortunately, eBay is so big, and eBay Germany is such an important affiliate site, that it's unlikely anything will be done to correct what amounts to extortion.

I'm not located in the US, either. Yet, all my transactions there are handled properly and smoothly and go directly to my PayPal account.

The answer of course is simple. If you're not in Europe, don't sell on eBay Germany.

In the future, I will likely only sell on eBay US and eBay UK.

[zbv500]

This is a new payment system on German ebay. They use it only for new sellers that start selling now. Thus many of the members here dont know it. They started before this system was introduced. ebay just started this new model with any new sellers on ebay now.
And they will not only hold your Paypal money, its also the same with wire transfers. You have to wire the money to an ebay account before the seller can ship it.
Its rediciolus......

Jens

[Brian L.]

This is a new payment system on German ebay. They use it only for new sellers that start selling now. Thus many of the members here dont know it. They started before this system was introduced. ebay just started this new model with any new sellers on ebay now.
And they will not only hold your Paypal money, its also the same with wire transfers. You have to wire the money to an ebay account before the seller can ship it.
Its rediciolus......

Jens

My way around this has been to not send invoices and to send messages to the buyers to not click the "Pay Now" button. I give them my PayPal account
and they pay me directly.

Most have been very cooperative. A few buyers have been nasty, which I don't understand. They're still as protected on PayPal as they are on eBay given that eBay owns PayPal.

I got one long rather evil message from some guy in Germany saying this was my problem, not his problem and he refused to cooperate and demanded I send him the badge he won.

So I cancelled his transaction, refunded his money, told him he wasn't getting the badge and I blocked him because I had no way to verify he'd paid me, and quite frankly I just thought he acted like an a**hole.

I got the eBay Services PayPal transaction IDs from those buyers who kindly agreed to cooperate with me, and when I gave these to PayPal US, 6 out of 7 of them came back invalid. I was then advised to treat these transactions as bogus, the messages of payment from eBay Services as bogus and to cancel all the transactions.

Hopefully this stupid policy will eventually hurt eBay Germany and they'll recind it. They've lost me as a seller. And while I may be small potatoes to them, they were still making about 100 Euros/month in fees from me. Multiply that by the dozens of sellers who are also complaining loudly and they could potentially lose thousands of Euros/month.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I got one long rather evil message from some guy in Germany saying this was my problem, not his problem and he refused to cooperate and demanded I send him the badge he won.

So I cancelled his transaction, refunded his money, told him he wasn't getting the badge and I blocked him because I had no way to verify he'd paid me, and quite frankly I just thought he acted like an a**hole.

.

probably the best way to get folks to complain to ebay about you.

To be honest, if someone on the other side of the world, where I know I cannot complain, told me AFTER an auction, I could not use the OFFICIAL way to pay.... I would do the same as the buyer above.

An also convinced, if you do not go over ebay to pay the transaction, you are not insured.

[Brian L.]

probably the best way to get folks to complain to ebay about you.

To be honest, if someone on the other side of the world, where I know I cannot complain, told me AFTER an auction, I could not use the OFFICIAL way to pay.... I would do the same as the buyer above.

An also convinced, if you do not go over ebay to pay the transaction, you are not insured.

My location has nothing to do with security of the sale which is covered by all kinds of safe-guards on eBay and Paypal. So, what would you do? Ship the item without verifiable payment?

I made a reasonable request of this jerk, which was simply to pay on Paypal directly. He would have still been covered by buyer protection, and could still have tracked his payment, which Paypal holds for 21 days for newer sellers. if he had been unsatisified with the item, he would have gotten a full refund.

The so-called "official" way is in fact a violation of eBay policy perpetrated by eBay Germany, which takes sellers' money and puts it, I would assume in an interest-bearing account for a month, without any way for either buyer or seller to track it or for the seller to get paid in a reasonable amount of time.

Also, I'd like to point out that I buy far more than I sell on eBay Germany and take greater risks with many sellers there than I do with sellers on eBay US or UK and more to the point far greater risks than I myself pose to potential buyers of my items. As you say, I'm "half way around the world". Yet, I'm expected to transfer money to German bank accounts by many German sellers who refuse to use Paypal, without any guarantee I will receive what I am buying. This calls for a great deal of trust on my part and the part of others who are forced to deal with such sellers. What does eBay do to police these sellers?
It seems to me that they have one very lax policy for locals and a draconian policy for others outside of Germany, who actually follow the myriad of transaction rules that eBay imposes.
If one wants to sell German material, one ideally needs access to eBay Germany. But, they simply make it too unfavourable to sellers from abroad.

[Brian L.]

By the way, I merely wrote this as a personal experience and possible warning to others.

I didn't expect it to turn into controversy and criticism.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I didn't expect it to turn into controversy and criticism.

It is not, but you want to use German Ebay, and not do it by their rules.

Many Militaria collectors in Europe feel comfortable dealing with someone in Germany or Europe, because if there is problem they can go around and settle it.

On the flip side, if someone from China, Vietnam or Indonesia scams them.... all is lost.... hence a reluctance to send money there that circumvents the Ebay process.

The reason they hold your money is they dont want to see you take the money and run. YOU may know you are trustworthy, they may not. It is an insurance that a buyer enjoys, especially sending money halfway around the world where he knows he cannot collect if things go wrong.

It is called buyer protection, and they may find it strange if a seller tries to find a way around it.

Best
Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

P.S. Ebay rules are not the same from country to country, so Ebay in Germany dont give a rats sphincter what Ebay in the US say....

Best
Chris

[Brian L.]

The reason they hold your money is they dont want to see you take the money and run. YOU may know you are trustworthy, they may not. It is an insurance that a buyer enjoys, especially sending money halfway around the world where he knows he cannot collect if things go wrong.

It is called buyer protection, and they may find it strange if a seller tries to find a way around it.

Best
Chris

PayPal offers buyer protection, as well.

My living in Vietnam or on the moon is immaterial. My account is on eBay US and payments normally go into my PayPal account (PayPal is owned by eBay) where they are held, as well. But, at least in PayPal, I can see the deposit, who paid me and I can track it. So, I don't mind if it's held in PayPal, in order to ensure the safety of the buyer.

What pisses me off is that eBay Germany takes the money that's meant to go into my PayPal US account and re-directs it to eBay Services in Luxembourg. There is no way to track it, to tell who paid me and to follow a normal transaction procedure.

Obviously eBay Germany doesn't give a "rat's sphincter", and German buyers are only comfortable dealing with other Europeans.
Maybe a little less arrogance and a little more of a world-view is in order. Europe isn't the centre of the universe anymore. Asia is.

By the way, I sometimes deal on eBay UK, eBay Singapore and eBay Japan. They follow the same rules from the parent company in the US. Only eBay Germany and eBay Austria, which are essentially the same operate by different rules.