Gallipoli star

[Brian L.]

Are you sure it is not just a more common maker?

I am not tripping over boxes of them and have only encountered two in my time, saying that I should state it is not a 'main effort' in terms of interest, I would add I am also in Germany.

I posted these on WRF a while back:

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperi...s-x-2-a-18706/

Jock

Well, I don't have a set of dies myself. But, I do know of a collector and a member on here, well-versed in this and other Ottoman awards, who is a frequent traveller to Istanbul and who has been offered the dies for purchase there.

They are a very common badge and the one most encountered. In 50+ years of collecting, I've seen dozens of them and have personally owned 6 in total at one time or another.

I remember seeing BB&Co copies with acrylic enamel instead of glass enamel as long ago as the 1988 Max Show in the US.

[Biro]

Well, I don't have a set of dies myself. But, I do know of a collector and a member on here, well-versed in this and other Ottoman awards, who is a frequent traveller to Istanbul and who has been offered the dies for purchase there.

They are a very common badge and the one most encountered. In 50+ years of collecting, I've seen dozens of them and have personally owned 6 in total at one time or another.

I remember seeing BB&Co copies with acrylic enamel instead of glass enamel as long ago as the 1988 Max Show in the US.

Just so I'm clear on this...

You are saying that yourself and another longtime member here are aware of ORIGINAL BB&Co dies existing in Istanbul and that the other member has in fact been offered these original dies for purchase...?

Can you or he elaborate any further? I can't find any mention of anything along those lines on the forum and yet I would expect a member passionate about Ottoman awards to give the brothers a heads up before today!?

I have to say I'm a little skeptical...

[Jock Auld]

Top tip, I will remember to check the enamel if I see any in future!

Cheers

Jock

[saschaw]

I have to say I'm a little skeptical...

Me to, not only because I have severe soubts these stars do origin from Turkey at all... so why should the dies be in now-Istanbul...

[Rich G]

Sounds a bit iffy this tale that the bb&co original dies are in Istanbul... are you sure they are the original dies and not some news ones pretending to be the originals?

So the only way to tell from the original is the quality of the enamel??


Rich

[Sepp45]

I always loved this type of badge; trully nice! Experts will tell us if it is true or not.

[Brian L.]

I seemed to have opened a can of worms and there seems to be a slight hostility here.

I am relating this information second hand, which I heard very recently from someone to whom I have sold material and with whom I've exchanged information on the Eiserner Halbmond and who I tend to believe.

By the way, I didn't say "original dies". I said "dies". Perhaps they are new cuts of the badge.

While I was also skeptical at first, given the fact that the market is red hot for all things Ottoman, and this badge specifically, especially in Turkey, the story doesn't seem unreasonable.

However, take it with a grain of salt, if you want. I'd love to believe it's not true. I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just pass on plausible information.

You all don't know me and so I don't have any earned credibility on here. But, I have been collecting since I was a kid in the early 1960s. I picked up my first BB&Co in 1969 for $2, and eventually amassed a collection of about 50 different types of the Eiserner Halbmond: enamelled, lacquered and painted, in different kinds of metal, from zinc to 950 silver, 1-piece to 5-part construction and with different styles of pins. I can say with confidence that this badge has been reproduced for at least the last 25 years even at a time when there wasn't much interest and you could still pick up a multi-piece silver GODET, or J.H. Werner for under $100.

The repros I saw in 1988 at the MAX Show, were unmarked, but in the style of and with the same kind of pin as the BB&Co badges. The tell-tale signs were the slightly darker red acrylic enamel which doesn't have the same jewel-like appearance of glass-enamel and the cold, slightly blue colour of whatever metal was used.

Therefore, it seems reasonable now, with so much demand, that better quality copies are being made.

[Rich G]

Hello,

No one is doubting that copies exist. In fact, there are superb quality copies on the market and also some rather crude copies. What seems to be the issue here is that you are saying the BB&Co example has been copied and the only distinguished factor is the quality of the enamel. Is that a fair an accurate summation of what you are saying?

Rich

[Brian L.]

Hello,

No one is doubting that copies exist. In fact, there are superb quality copies on the market and also some rather crude copies. What seems to be the issue here is that you are saying the BB&Co example has been copied and the only distinguished factor is the quality of the enamel. Is that a fair an accurate summation of what you are saying?

Rich

Not a fair summation of what I am saying, as you are getting two things confused. Perhaps I wasn't very clear. Sorry. The original copies that I saw in the past were distinguished by two details, in particular: the quality of the enamel because acrylic was used and the type of metal, and although good were easy enough to spot if you had originals with which to compare.

I have no ideas about the alleged new ones from these so-called dies, if they even exist. I was only told last week by an experienced collector, who I believe, that because of the existence of dies (original or new, I don't know) that he is now personally quite nervous about the authenticity of any BB&Co on the market unless there's a clear provenance.

New copies could be made according to specs with proper enamel and metal, and therefore be quite believable. Given the high prices they're fetching, it would be worth making them properly.

In the 80s, a BB&Co could be had for $25-35. The price didn't change for over 10 years. It only crept up a bit during the 90s to about $50. Now, they're selling for over $200. In the past, while it wasn't difficult to find them with enamel intact, they were usually aged to some extent and often had the silvering worn off on the highlights. However, I have seen more minty ones in the last year on eBay that I saw in past 20 years.

All I'm saying is because of what I was told last week and the number that seem to turn up for sale online, it gives me pause to think that this is quite possible.

[Rich G]

In the 80s, a BB&Co could be had for $25-35. The price didn't change for over 10 years. It only crept up a bit during the 90s to about $50. Now, they're selling for over $200.

What hasn't gone up? When I started collecting EK1 in the 80's they were £45 cased.

Popularity will always affect prices. At least they don't command the prices of the 'luxury' stars.

In the past, while it wasn't difficult to find them with enamel intact, they were usually aged to some extent and often had the silvering worn off on the highlights. However, I have seen more minty ones in the last year on eBay that I saw in past 20 years.

All I'm saying is because of what I was told last week and the number that seem to turn up for sale online, it gives me pause to think that this is quite possible.

I think that your mild paranoia is due to the event called the internet. We have access to more than before, and it might make it seem there are more of something now than 30 years ago. With growing popularity in these awards means everyone can list opas medals on ebay with ease and just as easily see current prices and price accordingly.

[Don D.]

I think price has also brought out many more for sale as families see what this "old junk" can fetch. A lot of the increase in numbers of items has to be due to the dying off of the war generation.

There are also a lot of fakes out there as well and not limited to just the BB&Co badge either. Luckily, most can be spotted fairly easily. Sounds like a good theme for a new thread.....

[Brian L.]

I think that your mild paranoia is due to the event called the internet. We have access to more than before, and it might make it seem there are more of something now than 30 years ago. With growing popularity in these awards means everyone can list opas medals on ebay with ease and just as easily see current prices and price accordingly.

Yes. That's a very good point. I'm actually not paranoid, since I have enough experience to be confident about what I buy for my collection.

I will also admit that I took a long hiatus from collecting and only came back to it after the explosion of Internet auctions. Therefore, I agree that the volume of material is due in part to more exposure and more choice made possible by the Internet.

[demir]

Me to, not only because I have severe soubts these stars do origin from Turkey at all... so why should the dies be in now-Istanbul...

Totally in agreement with you

[demir]

Sounds a bit iffy this tale that the bb&co original dies are in Istanbul... are you sure they are the original dies and not some news ones pretending to be the originals?

So the only way to tell from the original is the quality of the enamel??


Rich

They do produce fake and red, green you name it colored War Medals in Istanbul now, and they may offer you dies of anything. Just ask

[Tan Berk]

As a citizen of Istanbul I have seen reproduction BB&Co. look alikes but I have never heard of dies that are being in use reproducing TWMs in Istanbul as well. Being not heard of them and never seen a recent product of them does not mean they don't exist. I won't be surprised of Turkish vendors making profit of them.

Tan