Help Needed with a German Ribbon Bar

[Alan_G]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for some help on this lovely 10 place ribbon bar, which for many years now has illuded identification to its original owner. I have done some initial research on it, but wanted some expert opinions.

I have sought help in the past on this bar and was given the names of the following possible recipients:

- Adolf Laule (Luftwaffe)
- Hans-Karl von Scheele (not him, a General der Infanterie, he had Anschluss medals which would certainly be on his bar)
- General der Infanterie Erich Taschke: (not him, there are several pictures that show him with his bar in wear)
- Hauptmann Henn: Oberst Heribert Henn, KIA in 1940
- Oberleutnant von Gallwitz: Generalleutnant (posthumous) Werner von Gallwitz, KIA in 1944
- Oberleutnant Graf von Sponeck: Generalleutnant Theodor Graf Sponeck of the Afrikakorps
- General Leutnant Ernst Richter - (Not him, as Kai Winkler auctioned off his estate many years ago, and his medal and ribbon bar were amongst the lot).

After illiminating some of the people from above that leaves me still with 3 possible candidates:

Oberst Henn - KIA 6th Feb 1940, Stab Inf.Reg.78. He may have been awarded the KVK2 at the start of the War? Not much further information on him.

Generalleutnant Werner von Gallwitz KIA 11 May 1944; not much I can find on his WW2 awards, if any. Can't find a photo either.

Generalleutnant Theodor Graf Sponeck again, very little information on him, and no pictures of him wearing a ribbon bar.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Don D.]

Here's a good read on the von Sponecks.

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com.../0004page.html

[Alan_G]

Hello Don,

Thank you very much for your reply, that site on the Von Sponneck family is a very interesting read.

Having read through the history of Theo V. Sponneck. There is very limited information on him to suggest that he was awarded anything other than his Knights Cross medal in WWII and possibly a wound badge.

Although Sponneck fought in Russia, he was wounded and removed from the front before the winter of 1941. (No issue of a 1941 Russian Front medal).

There is one period photo of him. In which he is wearing the Knights Cross, His Imperial Haus Orden Von Hohenzollern in his tunic button hole, and his WWI Iron Cross 1st Class.

I don't believe Sponneck had 25 years worth of service to be awarded the WH long service medals present on my bar. Can someone confirm this?


Taking a more detailed look at Generalleutnant Werner von Gallwitz:

Gallwitz was from a town called Glogau (now Glowgow Poland).

He had been a career soldier as far back as 1912.

Commands & Assignments:
• 22 March 1912: Fähnrich in 5. Badisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.76.
• 1914-1918: Battery Officer, Battery Leader and Ordnance Officer.
• 1 October 1919: Transferred to Reichswehr Artillery Regiment 13.
• 1 October 1920: Transferred to Reichswehr Artillery Regiment 5.
• 1 October 1927: Battery Chief in Artillery Regiment 5.
• 1 October 1934: Commander of the II. Battalion of Artillery Regiment 19.
• 26 August 1939: Commander of Artillery Regiment 183.
• 4 March 1942: Artillery Commander 133.
• 16 February 1943: Artillery Commander 101.
• 15 May 1943: Higher Artillery Officer I (Königsberg).
• 5 January 1944: Führer Reserve OKH.
• 6 April 1944: Mountain Artillery Commander 132.
• 11 May 1944: Killed in action.

He was posted in France as an occupying force in 1941 which also voids him as a recipient of the 1941 Russian Front medal, but could have been a post that granted him a KVKx with it still being a military role.

His long service decorations match the main ones to my bar:

Decorations & Awards:
• Prussian Royal Hohenzollern House Order, Knight’s Cross with Swords
• Prussian Iron Cross, 1st Class (1914)
• Prussian Iron Cross, 2nd Class (1914)
• Baden Order of the Zähringer Lion, Knight’s Cross 2nd Class with Swords
• Cross of Honor for Combatants 1914-1918
• Armed Forces Long Service Award, 1st Class (25-year Service Cross)
• Armed Forces Long Service Award, 3rd Class (12-year Service Medal)

Although he isn't mentioned for the commemorative post WWI medals of Austro-Hungry.

He is a more suitable candidate for this ribbon bar. Pending further research.


I cannot find any information on Oberst Henn? Anyone?

[Dave Danner]

I will be at tha National Archives next week. I can check their personnel files.

[Miro O]

I cannot find any information on Oberst Henn? Anyone?

Oberstleutnant 01.08.36 HENN Heribert 19.10.1893-06.02.1940 (Stab Inf.Reg.78) Oberst (01.03.39)

[VtwinVince]

Alan, I might have a photo of von Sponeck wearing his feldspange, let me check.

[Miro O]

I don't believe Sponneck had 25 years worth of service to be awarded the WH long service medals present on my bar. Can someone confirm this?

According to german wikipedia, Von Sponeck was already leutnant in 1914 (18 years old), and he stayed in Reichswehr after ww1 (hauptmann 1929, then generall staff officer). 1914 - 1943 is enough for WH long service medal.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_von_Sponeck

[Don D.]

Easily since the wartime years 14-18 counted as double.

[Alan_G]

Okay, so Theodor is still in the running.

This tiny photo is the only photo I can find of Von Gallwitz.
http://www.unithistories.com/

Thanks for the extra information on Henn and Sponneck Miro O. The biographical side I read, made it sound like he was in the police after WWI. But Reichswehr with "policing" duties does make more sense.

VtwinVince hope you find that photo

Dave if you manage to locate files on any of these three guys on your trip to the archives, that would be fantastic

[VtwinVince]

Alan, I found the foto, but he is not wearing his ribbon bar.

[Dave Danner]

Easily since the wartime years 14-18 counted as double.

I don't think double-counting applied to Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnungen.

The Archives were a bit of a disappointment, at least for this bar. For my research, I did find several previously unidentified Hohenzollern House Order, Zähringen Lion, and Lippe House Order recipients with Wehrmacht service.

However, unfortunately, neither Henn's nor Gallwitz's files were there.

We can rule out Theodor Graf von Sponeck. His WW2 decorations were the Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross, the clasps to the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class, and the Panzer Assault Badge (his file doesn't say, but I assume it was a bronze PAB, since he commanded armored infantry). No KVK.

Though I can't confirm due to the missing file, I think Werner von Gallwitz is also unlikely. He commanded Artillerie-Regiment 183 from its formation in 1939 to March 1942. AR 183 was part of the 83. Infanterie-Division and saw combat in France in 1940 and in Army Group Center in Russia from January 1942 on. I find it hard to believe von Gallwitz, as a combat division regimental commander, would not have gotten a clasp to his 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class at the very least. Also, with AR 183 and then Arko 133 both being in Army Group Center in the first half of 1942, von Gallwitz should have had enough time (14 days in active combat, or at least 60 days in the combat zone) to qualify for the Eastern Front Medal.

So Henn may be the best bet. Where did you get the information that he was KIA? If he died in February 1940, during the Sitzkrieg, it may have been of natural causes. Also, IR 78 was his peacetime unit; he may have been assigned to another unit or command on mobilization. IR 78 was part of the 26.ID, though, and was stationed in the Eifel region on the Belgian border in 1939 and the first part of 1940. As a staff officer, if he was still with his regiment there, or perhaps on division staff, he could have gotten the KVK during the "Sitzkrieg". If he had lived, he probably would have gotten the Schutzwall-Ehrenzeichen (the medal was established in August 1939, but most awards to military officers seem to be spread out through 1940, from the records I have seen). And being dead before the Western campaign in 1940 means no clasp to the EK2.

[saschaw]

I'm not sure if we can rule out a wearer e. g. of the Wiederholungsspange, just because it's not on the ribbon bar. It could well be worn in full size on the ribbon in the button hole.

Remember, ribbon bars are just snap-shots, and once other awards were awarded, a new one was ordered. The old one thrown away or, more likely, put into a drawer.

Unless we find a picture of very this bar in wear, I still think it's to thin to be identified to one wearer. One more WW1 award and it were probably easier.

[Alan_G]

Hi Dave, Thanks anyway for checking the records.

The Wiederholungsspange didn't have to be worn "twice" on active duty. I think this was against regulations to wear the same award twice?

I know if it was worn on through the tunic button on the 35mm ribbon, it wasn't usually worn on the ribbon bar (although the WWI EKII ribbon still could be worn, less the device).

I have seen officers and soldiers obey and disobey the rules in many period photos. Keitel is a serial offender

There are a few other award ribbons worn through the button hole, which the bearer could exclude from the bar:

Iron Crosses
Russian Front medal
KVK medal
HOH3x.

Von Mannstein seemed to prefer his HOH3x through his button hole and left out even his ribbon bar from wear.

[Dave Danner]

An old thread, but a bit of a follow-up for anyone interested:

According to the Kriegsrangliste of IR 170, Heribert Henn's regiment in World War I, he received the Baltenkreuz on 20.8.1919. So that would appear to rule Henn out.