Very interesting ribbon bar of a Saxon staff officer

[Klaus O.]

Dear Imperialoids,

I was fortunate enough to win this bar which offered on Ebay. Unfortunately I wasn't that lucky to get also the miniatures which were posted on Ebay. Too bad, because I was seriously interested to keep these two items together.

I saw that there were different forums' members who were quite interested in purchasing it, but I couldn't resist to overbid them.

Please enjoy this beauty and I thank you in advace for any additional help that you might give me for finding the wearer of this ribbon bar.



Ciao,

Claudio

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Claudio,

NIIIIICE one!!!!! I was one of the outbid members, but I know this bar has now a good home. From the peacetime awards I thought it was GenMaj a.D. Alfred Kaden from FAR 77, because he was the only one who had had the fitting peacetime awards in 1914. BUT Kaden had a St.Henry knight and Commander 2nd class and cannot had this bar. So I think we have here a guy already retired before 1914.....Oh gott, some hundred more ranklists to go through.


Best regards

Daniel

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Claudio,
I HAVE HIM!!! As I thought it was a aD type! Fritz Albert Heinrich Graf von Schimmelmann, born 1861, alive obviously in 1934. Lt 29.09.83, OLt 12.11.90, Rittm 25.06.95, Maj 22.04.05, OTL 16.05.15. He went 1909 zD from Staff of UlanRgt 18. Was recalled for WW1; in 1915 Delegierter der freiwilligen Krankenpflege bei der Kriegslazarettdirektion XIX, later in General Staff of the 24<SUP>th</SUP> InfDiv. Became Johanniter Ehrenritter 30.03.1900, got RAO4 15.09.1903, 1906 the Saxon XXV and 15.03.06 his BrH3a; SA3a 24.05.07, “promoted” to Johanniter Rechtsritter 11.08.1908, followed by a Spanish Military Merit Order 2nd class 13.10.1908. In WW1 he received the swords and the crown to his SA3a 28.09.1915 and got a SV3aX 18.11.1916. His Prussian RKM 3 is nowhere mentioned but logically as hell as he was Krankenpflegedelegierter. His EK is also most likely. He wears his peacetime Albert incorrectly as a double award by the side of his SA3aXmKr. The Johanniter as neck decoration and the Spanish MMO2 as a small breaststar were worn in original size - so do not appear at ribbon bar and miniature chain. Uff…geschafft…
<O</O
Best regards
<O</O
Daniel

[Klaus O.]

Dear Daniel,

You're "da man"!!!

I can only imagine how long it took you to find him. Hopefully you enjoyed the research, because I don't want to give the impression I am the only one to profit of your vast knowledge and research's skills.

It is always a real pleasure to read your postings.

Ciao,

Claudio

[landsknechte]

Daniel...

This bar has come up on a thread elsewhere, with some question as to the identity of the ribbon on the right (the possibility of it being a stand-in):



Since it looks like we have a match here, what do you have that same ribbon on von Schimmelmann's bar representing?

Thanks,
--Chris

P.S.
Gorgeous bar you've got there. :-)

[Rick Research]

Claudio-- just to add to Daniel's ID--

Count Schimmelmann's family were DANISH, raised to that degree of nobility in the 18th century. What his branch was doing in SAXONY, Lord alone knows! He was born in Promnitz 14 August of 1861.

The award roll for the Crown and Swords to his Albert-Knight 1st Class (only 29 instances recorded WW1) merely lists him as a "Major aD." As Daniel has said, he was SUPPOSED to have replaced his peacetime Knight 1st with the wartime "upgrade," but apparently continued wearing BOTH, which was possible though not the situation in his case.

But his Saxon Merit Order-Knight 1st Class X (one of 400 listed) was as Oberstleutnant aD (extra thick state "V"s in shoulder boards to indicate what was "zV" status in WW2) was "on the General Staff, 24th Division."

So he had mixed frontline service as well-- at least as far "forward" as divisional headquarters. A bar!

[Daniel Krause]

Landsknechte,

I think You have there also a Brunswick ribbon. A Lippe House order should have golden edges.
I THINK we have here a Prussian Officer, no NCO, with the Principality of Hohenzollern Honor cross 3rd class, a Centenary and the Brunswick House Order knight 2nd class.

Claudio,

That was not overly difficult. Saxony is sooooooo comfortable small! And there were only 416 SV3aX awarded in WW1! So after I “failed” with Alfred Kaden I had just to check the aD and zD Officers for a RAO4 and BrH3a match in the 1914 ranklist and cross-check it with my Saxon “Wunderwaffe” for his awards in WW1. Took just 1 hour. If I think he would have been a Prussian… at least one day full time!


Best regards

Daniel

[landsknechte]

Landsknechte,

I think You have there also a Brunswick ribbon. A Lippe House order should have golden edges.
I THINK we have here a Prussian Officer, no NCO, with the Principality of Hohenzollern Honor cross 3rd class, a Centenary and the Brunswick House Order knight 2nd class.

Were either (or both, or neither) of those two orders rank-based in the way that the Bavarian MVO / MVK was?

--Chris

[Daniel Krause]

yup, nearly all imperial decorations were rank based.

[paddywhack]

sweet sweet bar but pity you couldnt keep the mini chain togerther with it!! any chance of getting them back together at all?(why do people do this and tear up history by seperating peices that have been together for years! )

[landsknechte]

yup, nearly all imperial decorations were rank based.

Do you know what ranks were tied to what grades of those particular orders?

Thanks,
--Chris

[Rick Research]

gotta split out this SECOND non-Saxon bar in Saxon thread...

Yes, but can't tell on deviceless ribbon bar WHICH grade(s) are there-- only the MEDAL bar would tell that for SURE. Medal bar identification is a science, but ribbon bar identification is an art!

[Daniel Krause]

Rick is right, without the medal bar or a miniature chain it is a guess.

I suppose Your bar has a Hohenzollern Cross of Honor 3rd class and a Brunswick House Order knight 2nd class. Indicates a 1st Lt or young captain. Entered earliest 1889 and latest 1897.

Best regards

Daniel

[landsknechte]

Sorry for the hijack.