Non-combatant 3-place Frackspange

[luftkrieg]

It has been awhile from I have purchased a medal bar, let alone one with the non-combatant EK2. I thought I would share this one with you.
I imagine he was a doctor or a medic of some kind.

-Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914 am weiß-schwarzen Band
-Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe
-Rote-Kreuz-Medaille 3. Klasse


Kind regards
Pierce

[Scott Powell]

NICE Frackenspange!

I am of the opinion he was an OR Medic,but i do look forward to others opinions. You have very good taste in Bars Pierce, i always enjoy your posts

[VonPeter]

Love it.
Any idea why its mounted in the opposite order, personal preference maybe?

As allways, thanks for showing.

[Don D.]

It is mounted correctly for wear with civilian dress.

[VtwinVince]

Aha, you got that one. Congrats, I was going to bid on it as well, but got sidetracked

[hottoddy]

Because (I believe) it was mounted on a diagonal, with the top/highest side on the right. EK being the most important, it is on top (as opposed to the bottom if it were mounted on the left) Imagine a slanted "/E/" with each arm being a medal and thats kind of what the mounting would be like (as opposed to straight across).

By the way, lovely bar!!!

[römischIX]

ah the piece of ebay - sorry but i would say, this bar is not good.

i asked him to take some pictures of the backside especially of the needle system and the jarn. and i got no pictures of it. so why?

for a non-combattant bar it was really cheap - so i think other interested collectors said "no way" too. also he said "i do not know which kind of medals they are.." but did you look at his other auctions? he knows a lot...

this combination is often used by known german fakers - because they all are thinking a non-combattant was always a medic and so he got the red cross medal 3rd or 2nd class, the merit cross and the non-comb. ic. :

.. thats wrong !

but the most (not all ! ) were officials, chaplains, scientists, factorists, or soldiers of the "landwehr".

have a look at militaria321 and other places. there, always the non combattant bars does have the same medals... so do you think all of them ar good - i do not...

for example : www. "ordensammler.com". i like the page very well... have a look at the bars. really good made, but.... yes but....

[VtwinVince]

Pierce, have you done the usual tests on it?

[saschaw]

The bar is perfectely good in my humble opinion. It does absolutely not compare to e.g. the club's fake bars only a blind man would think to be good.

One could notice the difference between old and fake ribbons. Apparently not everybbody does.

Regarding the wearer: It could have been any kind of profession, but he probably did stay in Germany during the war. If he had earned his EK in enemy's country - even as a non-combuattant - he would have gotten it on black and white ribbon.

[luftkrieg]

Thank you all for your comments. I am glad this little bar is generating some discussion.

Vince, sorry you missed it.

Yes, it passes the black-light test- nothing what so ever glows. Ribbons look good too. Also ribbons are marked in places from where the medals have rubbed against it so this medal bar has been together for a long time I think.

From having studied it all over in hand I cannot see anything that resembles any of the fakes I have seen over the years. It is tightly made, medals sewn down with different coloured thread, condition of medals and ribbons is similar, etc.

In saying all that I still would like to hear some more opinions please.

Kind regards
Pierce

[römischIX]

i didn`t say, that this bar is from the club... i meant, that it is really good made, like the most of the club`s bars. i am sure, that the most of us would buy his bars - if we would not know, how he is...

but tell me: why no pictures, and why did he say like" no idea, which medals for example he said: "red cross medal on damenmasche"... and than his other auctions, as he knew a lot.... ha ha... and why always this same combination...


and uv-negative does not mean anything - there a also original pieces of the 30s - 40s with uv-positive ribbons (mostly hanseatic and mecklenburg crosses)

for example the following bar (not from the club)

would you buy it? - first i would ! do you know the reason, why i did not bought it? - because of the "mecklenburg" medal. it is extremely rare (for live aid) - and some of them were sold at ebay the same time and a collectors friend told me about it... do you think all of the livesaving medals were orginals? i do not...

[luftkrieg]

but tell me: why no pictures, and why did he say like" no idea, which medals for example he said: "red cross medal on damenmasche"... and than his other auctions, as he knew a lot.... ha ha... and why always this same combination...

Maybe he had not the time to take further photos? Or just could not be bothered? I did not see any of his other items so cannot comment on what he had or what knowledge he has. Were the other items medal bars or medal orders or uniforms?

Is it not more important to judge the medal bar rather than the seller for whatever reason?

Best
Pierce

[saschaw]

Is it not more important to judge the medal bar rather than the seller for whatever reason?

Pierce, I could not agree more. The bar does not raise any suspiction, while those of the club and as well the one shown here with Strelitz life saving medal just do not look right.

Those of the club are actually, in my humble opinion, very easy to detect as they use crappy repro ribbons. They don't even need to glow under blacklight - they are as they are, just crap and look faked.

The tuxedo bar here is properly sewn, uses old ribbon, shows some minor wear and age - is exactely how a bar should look like. And the combination is fine and typical.

Why always the same combination?! Because it's a standard combination, that, roughly the same, was worn by hundered or even thousands!

Pierce, if you get tired of the bar... I'd take it!

[luftkrieg]

Pierce, I could not agree more. The bar does not raise any suspiction, while those of the club and as well the one shown here with Strelitz life saving medal just do not look right.

Those of the club are actually, in my humble opinion, very easy to detect as they use crappy repro ribbons. They don't even need to glow under blacklight - they are as they are, just crap and look faked.

The tuxedo bar here is properly sewn, uses old ribbon, shows some minor wear and age - is exactely how a bar should look like. And the combination is fine and typical.

Why always the same combination?! Because it's a standard combination, that, roughly the same, was worn by hundered or even thousands!

Pierce, if you get tired of the bar... I'd take it!

Thank you for the vote of confidence Sascha!

In hand I really can find nothing wrong with it.

Best regards
Pierce

[römischIX]

... so tell me exactly what`s wrong with the ribbons of the shown bar with the "strelitz" medal... ?

i cannot see anything wrong... but perhaps your eyes are better than mine...