1912 Hussars busby came in

[Drew Wright]

Greg:

I don't know anything about the item in question, but do know that I would never do business with someone who wrote that response. If you would be willing to disclose who wrote that, you would be helping a lot of people in avoiding future unpleasant situations.

Regards,

Drew

[Gregory Koepp]

he responds just like MOST of the MEMBERS HERE! so are you going to stop buying from them too??? plus some members are worse in responding!!

as to who it is is private and will not post unless he wants me to, i have sent him this site to check out and if he wants he'll do what he wants.

thanks but no... greg

[Tony & Kaiser]

i do trust this man and will do more trading with him as you guys do with your hidden hot spots. i KNOW i got this at a great price and think i will hang on to it.

In my world, "wholesale price" means something else. Good luck with your collecting Greg. Tony

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's an original for comparison - but with the OR's pattern skull.

[Robin Lumsden]

And an OR wearing one.

[Gregory Koepp]

ya i have seen that one too. thanks.
but i have also seen others with alot of different skulls on the front too. so is this one in the photos an officers or enlisted?

keep more info coming in.

thanks greg

[GWA]

Gerd my friend,
i don't take it personal, so it's cool.





Get back to me via email, and I am sure there is a way out of this uncomfortable position you have put me in.


Deeply concerned...but not ready to give up on you yet...

Hey, this guy is a sreaming asshole; you have put HIM in an "uncomfortable position" and HE isn't "ready to give up on you yet"? What unbelievable arrogance!

He is obviously trying to embarrass you into submission. Tell him to f--k himself the goods are coming back.

If his wares are what he says they are, the next eager buyer is waiting in the wings and he is out nothing.

[Gregory Koepp]

ouch!!! well i bet he's going to be surpised to read what you guy's have to say

still please if anyone has web-sites or more photos of said item, i would like to read more.

thanks greg

[atlantis]

If I may add a comment to this discussion...

My expertise (if you can consider it such) is in regard to Imperial Russian items. As part of this, however, I have dealt with almost all of the major dealers in the United States and Europe. I have also purchased items which turned out to be problematic (as is clearly the case in regard to this busby). I can, however, make several comments that I think are pertinent to the problems brought up by this thread.

1. If the dealer is truly an "expert" you will rarely, if ever, purchase a piece at less than market value. Lets face it, these guys know what a piece will bring and are not going to sell it below its value just to help your collection. When someone tries to sell you on an item with the statement that it is worth much more than they are asking then generally this means that the true experts have declined the piece for one reason or another. In short, you will get what you pay for (or unfortunately in some cases even less)

2. Do not buy from a photograph. You must examine the piece itself to really determine its originality and condition. If you want purchase a major piece, spend the money to see it or make arrangements for delivery with a return privilege. Once the dealer knows you, he may send an item on memo although it is generally polite to reimburse the postage costs should you not decide to keep the piece.

3. Any dealer who has a "no return policy" on a major purchase is definitely in question. Small items are understandable, but not major pieces such as this.

4. Your money is better spend on one great piece with authentication as opposed to even hundreds of questionable ones.

5. Never justify a mistake by trying to convince yourself that perhaps everyone else is wrong. While this may be true for a very advanced collector in their specific area of expertise as a general rule you are only fooling yourself. Many of us have bought things because of "what we want them to be" but in the process miss what they really are...or in this case are not.

6. In the end, if you blunder on an item, consider it an expensive lesson and move on. Cut your losses but don't make the same mistake twice. If a dealer is unreliable once you can be sure he will repeat this offense in the future. Certainly there can be misunderstandings but generally a good dealer's reputation is worth more than he is making from you on a single purchase.


Just my opinion but I feel this philosophy is the correct one to follow irregardless of the collecting field.

My regards to all,

Brad LeMay

[atlantis]

For Comparison

Again, please understand that German headgear is not a major part of my collection. Most of the forum members will know more about this subject than I but I did feel this might be of interest for comparison. I think the difference from the item in question is significant. Hopefully this will be of assistance.

Brad LeMay

[Gregory Koepp]

very well said....
i do understand what is being said and i don't disreguard it. it might take me a hour or so but it does hit me when it is in front of my face. you are right and i will see what i can do to take care of this problem. if i can't, well like you said it tells me something more than losing a far amont of money.

thanks greg

[atlantis]

Lessons

Dear Greg,

Let me first say that it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I do wish, however, that the introduction was not prompted by such an unfortunate situation. Irregardless, we all learn by our mistakes. Any collector who has not made errors simply hasn't yet discovered them. I assure you that every individual on this forum has purchased pieces that they later find are... lets say... incorrect. I for one have several such items in my collection and am sure there are others which I will eventually discover. If you made a mistake in regard to this busby then welcome to our club. Collecting is a series of successes and failures. Sometimes these lessons can be expensive although it is through them that we truly gain expertise. The next time one of these comes up for sale, be assured that your eye will be better educated than 90% of the other collectors. You will remember the inconsistencies pointed out in regard to this piece and in the process will have learned what's right and more importantly what's wrong. In the process of learning you will yourself become one of the "experts" advising other potential collectors.

I recently decided to expand my 19th century collection to include American military items from WWII. I have collected high end 18th and 19th century militaria for years but this is like starting over. Now I am out of my element and am again the novice. I find myself sending notes to other forum members asking for advice and at times feel a bit silly as they answer my sometimes simplistic questions. Each response helps me to learn the new area (I must, by the way, thank the forum members for their willingness to teach and for their patience). It will take time but the final result will be an enjoyable endeavor into a different area of history.

In the end, just enjoy the chance to learn. The lessons are what really makes collecting worthwhile. If we have a few wonderful things to show others in the process then so much the better.

With my respects and regards,

Brad LeMay

[Arran]

Hi Greg,
I do have a specific issue about the cords on your busby, and their attachment. The cords were worn up on the busby when in dismounted order, and one end down looped around the neck when mounted (their practical purpose was to prevent the loss of the helmet when riding). There should be loops attached to the crown of the helmet at the 12:00 and 9:00 postitions if you are looking straight down from above (with the front towards you) to attach the cords. The cords can be removed entirely from the helmet by sliding them out of these loops- this system was UNIVERSAL for officers and enlisted ranks from all German states, and I have never seen any exception myself. If your cords, which are both tied incorrectly as well as being of the wrong material (now that I see your newer pics) are an integral part of the helmet, then this feature alone would make me stay away. Keep in mind that ALL officer's helmets were "privately purchased"- this should not be a blanket excuse for variation far outside of the norm. As I mentioned in my first post, the presence of a label of a type I have only ever seen in tunics, never in headgear, and from a state which didn't field hussars is also a major warning sign. Of the Brunswick helmets that I have seen that were marked, all were made by Brunswick makers. It has also been pointed out that many if not all of the mounts are incorrect.
None of us have a vested interest in whether you spend your money on this helmet or not- Tony has offered you a very well-founded opinion, as he owns busbies himself and I imagine has inspected many more. I'm sure Kaiser would second that opinion if asked. Finally, the seller has behaved all along like a fraud, basically saying that he can get you top stuff at discount prices, but he doesn't want to deal with you if you don't simply take his word on originality. I'm sorry to say that I doubt even Manions would accept this item as an original, and that's something. Although Imperial officers' headgear is all I collect, I always browse the other rooms because of the wealth of expert opinions to be found on all types of objects, and I would stack the collective voices of your fellow collectors here against that of anyone attempting to make money off you. I, for one, recommend that you send the helmet back and never deal with this fellow again.

Regards,
Arran.

[Drew Wright]

Greg:

I absolutely would not do business with anyone who responded like he did, forum member or not. Life is simply too short to deal with jerks who either don't know what they are selling or are trying to screw you.

I understand your decision not to disclose who this seller is. We'll see if he identifies himself...

GWA: I couldn't agree with you more!

Regards,

Drew

he responds just like MOST of the MEMBERS HERE! so are you going to stop buying from them too??? plus some members are worse in responding!!

as to who it is is private and will not post unless he wants me to, i have sent him this site to check out and if he wants he'll do what he wants.

thanks but no... greg

[Robin Lumsden]

Again, please understand that German headgear is not a major part of my collection. Most of the forum members will know more about this subject than I but I did feel this might be of interest for comparison. I think the difference from the item in question is significant. Hopefully this will be of assistance.

Brad LeMay

Brad.
That looks like a nice one.