Engraved Iron Cross / Opinion

[HaJo_GER]

Hello Gentlemen,

I have a WW1 Iron Cross with an engraving:

Ltn.Dätz
16.4.1917
*Aisne*

The crosses pin seems not to be in the right position, cause it is impossible to open it wide.

The crosses core is magnetic and it is a three piece construction.
I assume it is made in the 30s ???

Any help would be great. Thanks a lot in advance.

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010377.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010367.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010366.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010365.jpg

And a little paper work belonging to Lt. Dätz

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010381.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/P1010383.jpg

[Rich G]

I believe the cross is a reproduction. Did it come from the family or anything?

Rich

[HaJo_GER]

I believe the cross is a reproduction. Did it come from the family or anything?

Rich

Hi Rich,

do you think the whole cross is repro, or the engravement ?
Why do you think so ?

Hajo

[morel5000]

Hi,

that would not be in my collection..
Don't like the engraving nor the cross.. but it could be a ww2 variant. However this core has been seen in KO marked crosses and those are fake.

I like the two papers


Best regards,

Michel

[Darrell]

Hi Rich,

do you think the whole cross is repro, or the engravement ?
Why do you think so ?

Hajo

Nothing is ((WW1 or WW2) war time. The cross or the engraving.

[Coburg]

Interesting date fitting in with the opening day of Nivelles abortive and costly offensive on the Aisne. Coincidence?

Jim

[streptile]

Nothing is ((WW1 or WW2) war time. The cross or the engraving.

Agree -- everything is modern.

[gregM]

I have this style listed in my FAKES files as the "Large crown fake"
It is the same core that we see used in some of the fake "Blücherstern"
being offered up on ebay. Here are a couple more examples----

[morel5000]

Large crown fake

Cool name Greg!

Best regards,
Michel

[streptile]

Hi Greg,

Actually the one you show on the right is my old cross, and is not a fake, but a legitimate BRD-made replacement cross.

The problem with this core is that it has been expertly faked as well, and is currently in use on many fakes. But it was also legitimately used on many TR-era (and beyond) replacement EK1s. Here is a montage of a legitimate TR-era "L/16" marked EK1, next to a recent fake:



From these photos, can you tell which is the real replacement cross and which is fake?

I can't do it with any certainty.

Only a look at the hardware or the marks can tell us what's what, in my opinion.

[streptile]

Here is another example on a bar. As an EK2, it's harder to say precisely when it was made, because there is no hardware:



I suspect this one is good also, maybe TR-era.

[gregM]

OK, that's just plain scary.
I have NEVER been a fan of this style cross and this just reinforces my
justification for not adding one to my collection.

[AlikN]

I have this style listed in my FAKES files as the "Large crown fake"
It is the same core that we see used in some of the fake "Blücherstern"
being offered up on ebay. Here are a couple more examples----

Can you show where is it offered?

The picture that you used is picture of my Blücherstern that I wouldn't call a fake,
it is copy made by C.F.Rothe and it's clearly marked, without anyone trying to pretend to be something it is not.
And I would say that this Rothe piece is the best quality example of Blücherstern I have seen, if you have anything better to show please do.

[gregM]

I snagged the picture off ebay some time ago. I know longer have the
link to it. The picture of Trevors cross, was one that I copied off the
forum. I did go back on ebay today and looked form similar examples
without any luck. Seems the current batch of stars are being offered
with that 1 piece pumpkin crown fake that has been so popular lately.

[HaJo_GER]

Seems that is bad news

Does anyone has authentic examples of engravings and of a cross like this ?
Is even the cross itself a total fake ?
What about the strange pin ?
Looks repaired, but who would repair a fake ???

Thanks again, Hajo