1813 EK2 with paper packet

[Eric Stahlhut]

Some of you will recall this one. It came up for discussion a few years ago. The thread concerning this example is probably gone by now, so here it is again for everyone to dissect!

First, the paper packet. Part of the packet is reinforced with cloth.

[Eric Stahlhut]

closeup

[Eric Stahlhut]

Interior of packet

[Eric Stahlhut]

Here's the cross. The core is not stepped; it is loose.

[Eric Stahlhut]

other side

[Eric Stahlhut]

close up

[Eric Stahlhut]

another closeup

[Eric Stahlhut]

The soldering agent used to join the frames has a red tint. It tried to capture the effect.



I realize these aren't the greatest pics--if anyone wants a more detailed pic of a particular feature of this cross, just ask.

[Gerd Becker]

Whew



Thats really a tough one, Eric. If its genuine, it is an absolutely treasure. Could it be, that the core war repainted once?

Interesting piece. What were the conclusions of the former discussion?

best,
Gerd

[Eric Stahlhut]

If I recall correctly, the consensus was 'mid-to-late' manufacture.

The marks you see on the core are from the loose core jiggling around in the frames and wearing away the finish of the core. I doubt it has been repainted. I can probably get a better view of the core if so desired.

During the last thread I was hoping to get some info on the maker (or retailer), but my source in Germany never came through with any concrete facts.

[Doug See]

Is the packet printing engraved (can you see any depression or burnishing on the paper)? If not, it may be lithographed. Lithography was not common until mid to late 1800's. (I'm in the printing industry).

The red tint may be jewelrs polishing rouge which collecting in the seams. I've seen this on other finely made EK's, especially prinzens.

Just more "clues" to add to the mystery....

[Eric Stahlhut]

Doug,


I took a peek at the interior section of the packet directly behind the inscription
and cannot discern any type of impression. The packet is extremely brittle and I am very nervous about handling it too much. The ink is black, and may not be copperplate as I initially believed.

What is the best method of storing old paper? I would be very upset if I were to unwittingly damage the packet.

[Doug See]

Eric,

Do NOT store paper in the old style vinyl slip sheets. Use the sheet protectors which are labeled "archival safe" or something like that. Keep the packet out of the light. Don't diplay it --I know that spoils the fun, but light will eventually damage the ink AND the paper.

[Tim Tezer]

At best, the cross is mid-to-late 19th Century. The oakleaves do not resemble early awarded types of crosses, nor is there anything about the cross that resembles the Godet pieces made in the 1830's.

According to Jeffrey Jacob's "Court Jewelers of the World", Rosenthal was in business after about 1860. The name was eventually changed to Rosenthal & Sohn, but the date of the change is unknown.
Tim

[Eric Stahlhut]

Thanks, guys!


Doug- that's pretty much how the packet is currently being kept. Since you are familiar with paper goods I figured that it would be worthwhile to seek your advice.

Tim- yep, that much I've already covered. Rosenthal made crosses through WW1. I figure it might be a 50 or 100-year anniversary piece.


Take a look at page 28 of 'The Iron Time'. The cross on the cover of Lutzow's Freikorps Stammrolle shares a few characteristics with my example i.e. oaks and ring tab.