Hohe'n House Order "Knight's Eagle"?

[Eric Gaumann]

http://www.medalnet.net/eagleoftheknights.htm

At this site, at the bottom of the page, the "Eagle of the Bearers; does anyone have any additional information on this item? I mean I can read and all but what the heck is this thing? The reason I ask is I found one today in an antique store downtown in a large Texas city. I'm gonna go back tomorrow and double check but it had in it's favor good detail Ob & Rev and also with the enamel. Against it it had no maker's marks or silver content marks.
Comments?
Thanks,
Eric

[Tim Tezer]

An unmarked piece is possible, especially if it's gold instead of silver.

That would be one HELL of a find, my friend. Can you get them to offer a return privilege, even for a few days? If they do, you should probably buy it and post pics on this forum, and see what people think. There are fakes out there, so I wouldn't say it's entirely safe. In fact, with the Inhaber's eagle (the next lower class) there are probably more fakes than originals.

As for why it was awarded in this form, in a completely different design from the cross of the order, I was never very clear on that. This sounds like another good opportunity to crack open a few books and see if I can learn something.

Tim

[Tim Tezer]

Well, I've been picking through Nimmergut's book, but my German reading skills are a bit weak. I believe the Adler was for particular types of recipients - scientists, artists, educators - something like that. That would imply that the cross-form pieces went to people directly in the service of the Prussian crown. Not sure on this.

I tried to locate any information on fakes, but although there was an article back in 2000 in the BDOS journal, I joined in 2001 and all copies of that edition of the journal were already sold out. Maybe someone else has seen it?

Tim

[Eric Gaumann]

[QUOTE=Tamerlane]An unmarked piece is possible, especially if it's gold instead of silver.

Well, it's certainly not gold. It looks silver but the tarnish one would expect for a piece that old isn't there (although it's toned nicely dark, not bright chrome-type polished silver).
To me the lack of *any* markings just reeks of "non-original".
I dunno.....I wished I could afford to lose $50.

[Tim Tezer]

If it's silver, without gilding, then maybe we're talking about the "Inhaber" class, which doesn't have black enamel on the wings and bodies of the eagle. There are lots of fakes of that class out there, because they're a simple design. Again, I don't think an unmarked piece is necessarily a fake, but it's a pretty tough thing to buy without having seen a lot of originals and (better still) having a few fakes pointed out to you, so you know what to look for.



Tim

[Eric Gaumann]

[QUOTE=Tamerlane]If it's silver, without gilding, then maybe we're talking about the "Inhaber" class, which doesn't have black enamel on the wings and bodies of the eagle.

Yes, It's the un-enameled version (except for the coat of arms in the center). The picture at the bottom of the page at the website I linked in my first post is the medal/order I refer to.

Thanks for your help!!!
E

[Tim Tezer]

OK, for what it's worth, here are some photos to work from. First, although it's really small, this is an absolutely original piece. Sorry I don't have a larger photo in this case.

[Tim Tezer]

Second, this pieces is a fairly obvious fake. Needless to say, there may be better fakes out there. The details are pretty bad on this one.

[Tim Tezer]

The easiest way to spot this fake is the big ugly head on the eagle. Nothing like the original piece I posted above. If the one in your local antique shop looks like this, stay away.



Looks a little like Woodstock yelling at Snoopy, doesn't it?

Tim

[Eric Gaumann]

Ugh!!!

No, the one I was looking at did *not* have that chicken neck to it. Nor did it have the degree of seperation between the wing feathers. Looks more like the top example, although the ring, not the suspension ring but the smaller one attached to the medal is not the same in my example. As I recall it was a plainer, thiner ring. Does that mean anything?

Also, what does "inhaber" mean? A grade of some sort I presume?

Thanks yet again,
E

[Rick Research]

An "Inhaber" was a "Holder" of the grade below the actual Order-- what would be, if this was the usual cross instead of the Road Kill Chicken, a "Merit Cross" as opposed to a "Knight" Class.

Inhabers are probably SCARCER, since the average recipient would have been a lucky civil servant of "NCO" level with about 50 years of service to the state in.

[Sal Williams]

also means owner or occupier oddly enough. Like a tenant/ inhabiter.
Best, Sal

[Eric Gaumann]

Has Nimmergut....

got this screwed up????
1795 looks like what I'm talking about, but 1796 looks like the "chicken neck" fake. And to make matters worse he's got 1796 listed also as "Hohenzollersche Denkmünze" and also a "Johanniter-Order". WTF??!??!
I'm *so* confused. My girlfriend in Texas is gonna buy it for me *if* the dealer has a return policy. I'm gonna take some pix and post here but I'd like to get a handle on what this *may* be before I go nuts.
Thanks to all who are helping in the Great Chicken Neck Quest.

E

[Tim Tezer]

Love them chicken necks....

.... but only with barbeque sauce.

The wire loop suspension is not unheard of on these. It should look pretty much the same as the wire ring on the top of the Adler der Ritter on Andreas' site (medanet.net). If it's really really thin, then that's kind of unusual, but maybe it was replaced. Look for a particularly large blob of solder where the ring is attached.

Also the fact that it's not marked is pretty common.

As for Nimmergut, here's my take: his numbering is a little wierd, so 1796 is not the same as 1796/1 or 1796/2. The one he shows with the "60" attachment is still 1796, but it's listed as a "variant". (He also has the same photo in his encyclopedic 4-volume work on German awards.) Personally, I wouldn't buy the one he shows as a "variant" because I think Herr Nimmergut is a little too trusting. The adler he has pictured on the left side of the page in his price guide has a ring suspension, and I think it's totally righteous. But, yeah, his photos sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt because he has to provide illustrations for his books and in his zeal to do so he leaves himself open for some glaring errors.

By the way, do you mind if we ask how much you're going to pay for it?

Tim

[Eric Gaumann]

not at all

>By the way, do you mind if we ask how much you're going to pay for it?

50 beans. Makes me think that it's *way* to good to be true.

Is there any such thing as a, like, commemorative sorta medal for this order? I seem to remember the dealer's tag stating something like this was a commemorative sorta thing...