Pour le Mérite (Blue Max) with strange Oak Leaf

[mayhem_z]

Looks like S/L blue max, but this is RK oak leaf?
original?

[VtwinVince]

I don't know about originality, but these are not PLM issue oakleaves, more like RK variety.

[Tiger 1]

Interesting.

The oaks look to be postwar S&L. The ribbon also lacks the silver center stripe worn with the oaks device.

Just some thoughts.

Tony

[W McSwiggan]

Nikolas Burggraf Dohna Schlodien was not awarded the oak leaves. Makes me concerned about the whole display. Was this a self-award by the good count or simply a made-up grouping by someone unwilling to do minimum research? Does th picture look "touched up"?

[Biro]

So to sum up..

A fake PLM, a set of dodgey third reich era oaks, a PLM ribbon without the third stripe for the oaks and 'awarded' to a naval captain who never actually even won the oaks!!!

And yes - the picture was almost certainly touched up.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...3&postcount=15

This grouping is worth precisely nothing.

Marshall

[Leroy]

In the postcard photo, he appears to have Oakleaves (studio-added, looks like). Is the postcard fake? The Oakleaves appear to be cast from regular S&L Oakleaves (look at the two "blobs" on the left and right upper leaves).

[morel5000]

Hi,

I don't think the postcard is fake. Maybe a little freshened up by a contemporary artist?

Here is the same card:
fore sale here:
http://www.akpool.de/ansichtskarten/...ggraf-zu-dohna

Best regards,
Michel

[W McSwiggan]

If this card and "upgrade" was done with Graf Dohna Schlodien’s approval, it is a very sad commentary. To use American slang – he was widely considered a "jerk". His failure to serve in the IIIR Navy is largely due to the low esteem Gross Admiral Erich Raeder had for him.
This man needed no fantasy award to secure his reputation. As it was, he was one of only eight to be awarded the top awards from the 5 greatest German sovereigns – Prussia (Pour le Mérite), Bavaria (Ritterkreuz Max Joseph), Saxony (Ritterkreuz St. Henry), Wüttemberg (Ritterkreuz Military Merit Order) and Baden (Ritterkreuz Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order).
The only other true combat officer was Captain Nerger. The full select list is:
1. Kaiser Wilhelm II
2. Franz Joseph I of Austria-Hungary
3. Field Marshal Rupprecht, Crown Prince of Bavaria
4. Field Marshal Duke Albrecht of Württemberg
5. Field Marshal Paul von Hindenburg
6. General Crown Prince Wilhelm
7. Fregattenkapitän Nerger
8. Korvettenkapitän Nikolaus Burggraf und Graf zu Dohna-Schlodien.

[VtwinVince]

Right, Dohna was universally disliked, apparently for his arrogance and use of personal connections to further his career. You can't argue his service record, however.

[cobra-2001]

plm

The plm is a early 57 S&L so you may be right about the oak leafs to. It is worth something not just junk the S&L plm sell for 700-1000 dont know abot the oak leafs . And you are correct about the ribbon it is the wrong one but it too looks like a original ribbon old stock .

[Biro]

The plm is a early 57 S&L so you may be right about the oak leafs to. It is worth something not just junk the S&L plm sell for 700-1000 ....

'1957' is an erroneous date to pin on the so-called S&L plm as we have no indication of a manufacture date for this type copy. Nonetheless, a PLM supposedly made in 'early 1957' cannot be the legacy of a guy who died in 1956...

[speedytop]

Hi cobra-2001,

The plm is a early 57 S&L ...

What is meant with this statement?

Do you think, it is a 57 version? It is not a 57 version, because only denazified decorations can be 57 versions.

Uwe

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi uwe the firm S&L did make a 57 copy of the plm for WWI vets and sold many more till the 1970s . There are pictures of the wwi vets who had a S&L and wore it . If you do a search here under plm there is a study of them and look under S&L and you will see them there . As far as if it was given to the person in the thread i to dont think it is his but just a picture add for the sale . As far as i can see it is a S&L and a early one with the detail being that good . If i new the weight i could tell better.

[Don D.]

The point Uwe was trying to make is that there is no such thing as a 57er from of the PLM. It does not fall under the 57 reintroduction law like the TR era stuff. It is merely a wearers copy made by an unauthorized/unrecognized maker and is not considered a "real" PLM by purists.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi Don point taken.