Hi,
today I had the chance to make pictures of a friends collection. Look at this bar. Opinions?
Best greetings
Daniel
today I had the chance to make pictures of a friends collection. Look at this bar. Opinions?
Best greetings
Daniel
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closeup 1: -
closeup 2:Comment
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closeup 3:Comment
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and the reverse:Comment
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Well!
Have to say I've never seen anything like this one. Looks wonderful to me. How about you Rick?Comment
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but...........
Where's a long service ribbon and a Centennial ribbon???? Plus, no Colonial, no 1860's medals?? The big thing I don't like is the plain band around the bow. So, Inow doubt authenticity, but Istill think it's neat!!!Comment
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Oh God, such nice PARTS!!!! Righto-- New Style ribbon bar = 1915+---
1) no 1897 Centenary Medal
2) no 1866 or Colonials (how on EARTH can we account for a Red Eagle with CROWN and swords on combatant ribbon--with no wars?
3) Red Eagle with Swords TWICE-- yet no Long Service?
4) "50" Crowned Hohenzollern, last possibly issued in 1918, meaning awarded... in 1868... Hohenzollerns peacetime were EXTREMELY rare and even more so to someone so junior that in "1868" they weren't even involved in the war of 1866....
5) Bavarian ribbon is M1914, silver swords for Leutnant to Major
6) Württemberg Crown Order X-- can't imagine this for 1870, and too junior a class for WW1 to ...
who?
No, there are chapters missing from the life story this is supposed to show....
too many devices.... such nice devices!!!! I could just weep!
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Hi Rick (both ones
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thank You for Your replys.
I have no doubts about the authenticy of the parts, but the whole bar is really odd. The 3rd class with crown and swords was only given 6 times, no match with that bar.
But I have some comments to Your opinions:
There are a lot of bars not showing everything. Some guys with lots of decorations had also small bars not showing all their gongs. Sometimes they had bars only with wartime decorations, or only with the own countries decorations or with the most recognized ones. I have some couples like that in my stock.
The red eagle is not twice awarded with swords. The bow indicated the REO 4 awarded before. The bow is everytime in the colour of the actual 3rd class, even if the 4th class was peacetime. If he had also the 4th class with swords, he would wear it and the 3rd class would have 3 white stripes.
The jubilee numbers of the Prussian Orders indicate long service. Only the crown of the plm indicates 50 years of having the Order.
The bar is part of an amazing collection from a very reputated German collector and researcher. I will post some more outstanding bars later.
Best regards
DanielComment
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bars
I must say that I have seen bars on Royally in uniform that show no noncombat awards. I know that most were given many non swords awards in various grades. I am thinking that in the O'Connor books there such pictures. I can't say it is real or not real but if the Germans were anything like the Americans or Brits then it is possible that men omitted awards they thought to be common or meaningless.
The two Ricks seem to be highly educated on ribbon bars.Comment
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I have a pair of "Orders only" ribbon bars to a German Oberst or Generalmajor who was in Finland in 1918--with his Finnish award after Iron Cross and before peacetime Prussian Orders. That sort of "short" bar was also often worn by officers in Turkish service in WW1. You also find officers who wore only their OWN state's awards...
but the parts here do NOT add up to anything that can be explained:
How was someone supposed to have 50 years plus service, a combat veteran of 1870, with a peacetime Hohenzollern-Knight (but no peacetime Red Eagle or Crown Orders) only a Leutnant to Major in WW1? Could not be! If the Bavarian ribbon was not there, I would take a peacetime Hohenzollern-Knight (quite rare) without peacetime Red Eagle and Crown Orders to indicate a General whose Orders had been moved up to 2nd Class-- but a General could not get a MVO4X or a Wtbg CO-KnightX in WW1.
My article will show the OPPOSITE extreme-- a 14 ribbon bar from Duke Robert of Württemberg with all his dynastic jubilee etc "junk" ahead of the non-Wtbg awards he got for WW1.
Bars could go either way-- "everything" or "home state/combat only /Orders only"--but they should be consistent.Comment
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Rick,
I fully agree with You, the combination of that bar doesn´t fit.
My comments should not "defend" the bar.
To amuse You a little bit, look at this beauty:
Best regards
DanielComment
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Niiiiiiiiice!
Yet another mini device I've never seen before--the date riband on the Coburg Carl Eduard Medal.
I've got one with just crossed swords, and Mark has one coming from Chris, the same--just swords.
Now, what do you think about the TWO red ribbons with swords, and the way they are placed? I think what you have here is a native Coburger-- Saxe-Ernestine House Order X from there, the Carl Eduard X, other Thuringian awards from Meiningen and Saxe-Weimar. I would guess that the second red ribbon at the end is a Bulgarian St Alexander Order, given the family ties between Coburg and Bulgaria. The Reuss and Schwarzburg ribbons are also Thuringian--only the Oldenburg FAK2 w/"vdF" bar is "weird" on this group!Comment
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Hi Rick,
it is also for me the first one with the date riband. Usually all Saxon duchies just had only swords and not the mini ribands.
Best regards
DanielComment
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