Kaiser's Grand Cross-What is it?

[Indyarch]

OK, this may be a rookie question, but I do not profess to be an expert and I feel a need to know for certain.

I am referring to the large maltese cross worn by Wilhelm II in the photos below. It appears to be white enamel with eagles between the arms. My guess is it is a Johanniter order. Is it so large due to it being the Kaisers who is most likely the master of the order?

There appears to be a variation; one with what looks to have oakleaves (seen worn by Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II) and one with a large crown and crossed sword and sceptor (again indicative of being the kaisers?).

I look forward to learning the answer for certain from those of you who are more learned than myself.

[Indyarch]

Wilhelm I

Wilhelm I

[Indyarch]

Of coarse, I am referring to the neck order.

[VtwinVince]

It's a special grade of the Johanniterorden. Notice the sword and scepter suspension below the crown. The other one looks like a PLM with oakleaves. If you're really on your game, try ID'ing the medals on his spange.

[Mike Dwyer]

Yes, the cross worn by Wilhelm II in the Garde Artillerie photo is a special grade I believe he created for himself as the protector of the Johanniter Order. In the other photo it looks to be just the Johanniter Order cross with oakleaves. I'm not sure why it would have oak leaves. Kaiser Wilhelm II was not the Herrenmeister of the Johanniter Order. The Herrenmeister from 1853-1883 was Prinz Friedrich Carl Alexander von Preussen, from 1883-1906 Prinz Albrecht von Preussen, and from 1907-1926 was Kaiser Wilhelm's son, Prinz Eitel Friedrich von Preussen.

The cross worn by Wilhelm I appears to be the same thing, a Johanniter Order cross. But, my first thought was it is the Pour le Merite with oak leaves, which Kaiser Wilhelm I had, along with the Grand Cross of the Pour le Merite hanging down lower on his front.

[Indyarch]

Thank you. A PLM, mmm, it looks so white in W II's photo. As for being on my game, you're being evil. LOL

Without a clearer photo and colored ribbons and knowing something about the uniform/unit (Garde Artillery), I will struggle with it.

1) Southwest Africa Campaign
2) Another Colonial medal
3)

Well that's as far as I can go from looking at the photo. Appears to be mostly campaign medals which I am not up on.

[Indyarch]

Mike, you are correct on the crosses without the crown being PLMs. I had to look at the original postcard under 10x lens to see the letters. They appear to have oakleaves with an arc of diamonds around the leaves. Probably another special grade.

"It's good to be the king."

[Wild Card]

Hello Indyarch,

Photo #1 - Correctly identified as the Johanniter Order Protektordekoration which was founded on 23 August 1888 by Wilhelm II.

Photo #2 - A youthful Wilhelm II with a Grand Cross with Oakleaves to the Order of the Red Eagle.

Photo #3 - Wilhelm I is wearing his PLM with oakleaves at the neck. The oakleaves were awarded for his victory at the battle of Königgrätz on 3 July 1866 and is attached to the PLM that was originally awarded to his father. You may have noticed that he is also wearing his PLM Grand Cross and Star which were awarded on 20 September 1866.

As far as I can tell, there is no grade of the Johanniter Order that called for oakleaves.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

Wild Card is absolutely right.

[RAO]

@Wild Card and Sascha

On picture two it is never a Grand Cross from Red Eagle Order. Look of the center and than, WII can not have a oakleaves. Why? You know it! ;o)

Best Regards Mike

[Mike Dwyer]

I'm with RAO, every grand cross of the Red Eagle Order I've ever seen has a small center medallion and the one in that photo has no center medalion. Is that an actual photo or an artists rendition? If it's done by an artist then the cross could be almost anything.

[saschaw]

@Wild Card and Sascha

On picture two it is never a Grand Cross from Red Eagle Order. Look of the center and than, WII can not have a oakleaves. Why? You know it! ;o)

Best Regards Mike

Mike, you're right. But I still think it is meant to be a RAO Grand Cross, possibly with crown if this Fricke picture (with artists rendition!) is not too early for that.

Or is there anything else it could be? Cannot be plmE - an earlier Johanniter, before he instituted the Protektordekoration?

[streptile]

For interest's sake, here is Wilhelm I's bar:

1. 1813 EK2
2. KDM 1814
3. War COmmemorative Medal
4. Red Eagle w Swords
5. Imperial Russian Order Of St George 4th Class
6. Order of the Crown w/o Swords
7. Officer's 25-yr Service Cross
8. Hohenzollern House Order w Swords 3rd Class
9. Imperial Austrian Merit Cross for Officers
10. Imperial Italian Golden Galantry Medal
11. Commemorative Medal of the Royal House of Hohenzollern
12. KDM 1870-71
13. War Campaign Cross 1866
14. KDM 1864
15. Imperial Russian Medal for Entry Into Paris
16. War Commemoratie Medal - Baden
17. MVK 1870-71 Hesse
18. MVK 2nd Class Mecklenburg-Schwerin
19. MVK - Mecklenburg-Strelitz
20. Lippe Medal

This is a bar full of Reduktion medals, and it -- or more likely a reproduction of it -- is shown on AWS's catalogue sheet.

[Mike Dwyer]

Mike, you're right. But I still think it is meant to be a RAO Grand Cross, possibly with crown if this Fricke picture (with artists rendition!) is not too early for that.

Or is there anything else it could be? Cannot be plmE - an earlier Johanniter, before he instituted the Protektordekoration?

Saschaw,

Could it be a Johanniter cross with the crown on top and the arist just did a bad job of painting it?

[Indyarch]

Mike, you're right. But I still think it is meant to be a RAO Grand Cross, possibly with crown if this Fricke picture (with artists rendition!) is not too early for that.

Or is there anything else it could be? Cannot be plmE - an earlier Johanniter, before he instituted the Protektordekoration?

As I noted above, the crosses without crowns are intended to be PLMs. I had to look at the original postcards under 10x lens to see the letters. They appear to have oakleaves with an arc of diamonds around the leaves.

Did Wilhelm II have this as well as Wilhelm I?