Ekii 1870

[Montgomery Burns]

well spoken Trevor ,,,

But ,,,
Walter is not alone in not believing in this cross ,,,I do not aether ..
and there are Moore members as these two who have not spoken
I am just being careful not to loose popularity around here

Detlev Niemann, Andreas Thies, and Carsten Baldes know

how much that means ?? they al have they're list off mistakes..

I contacted him to ask about it; he wrote me back a nice email explaining that he knows these directly from the recipients' families

hoe much dos that mean ????

but ,in the end ,,,without a legitimate picture there is no proof off anything,,,

also not fore that Deumer ,,,,,and not fore the 1870 variant off AWS ,,,

until then we can make this original or fake what ever we want to..

but common cents tells me that the bad quality off the core not means that the production was cheap ,,,
but the craftsmanship and material was bad ....and that makes a strong case against this cross

regards kay




..

[Montgomery Burns]

by the way ,,

this is a cheaper cross ,,,,,
made off cheaper non silver alloy's ,,,,,

(((and perfect craftsmanship ))))

and there are documented to in period advertising

.

[streptile]

All I can say is that there is nothing wrong with the crosses under discussion here, except that the quality varies enormously. Some are quite nice, some are total crap.

This thread serves as a useful reminder to me why I never post anything interesting from my own collection anymore

By the way, the AWS EK 1870 is shown in period photos and advertising.

[Von Eisen]

All I can say is that there is nothing wrong with the crosses under discussion here, except that the quality varies enormously. Some are quite nice, some are total crap.

This thread serves as a useful reminder to me why I never post anything interesting from my own collection anymore

By the way, the AWS EK 1870 is shown in period photos and advertising.

I also believe there is nothing wrong with these crosses.

A useful reminder, yes to me too Trevor ...

[morel5000]

This thread serves as a useful reminder to me why I never post anything interesting from my own collection anymore

A useful reminder, yes to me too Trevor ...

So that is kinda interesting... or should I say disappointing..

When somebody posts an interesting piece, like a wideframe 1813 (happened twice recently, not the same kind of pieces) it gets stigmatized /called a faked without real evidence.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1813

and

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1813

But interesting pieces from your own collections aren't shown on this forum, because that might exactly happen to them.

So what purpose serves this forum to you then? Discuss about other peoples collection and not showing your own interesting stuff?

The 1870 Ek2 in this thread is such an interesting piece. Some like it, some don't. Make up your own mind on this piece. BUT not showing this sort of pieces will not help (what I thought was) the real meaning of this forum, which is to acquire and accumulate a knowledge about (imperial) orders and awards.

So Steve and Trevor, I would definitely like to see your interesting pieces.

As a starter here is mine, an 1870 ek2 with a stepped core.

Best regards,
Michel

[WaltherW]

Sorry, my english is too bad to tell what i mean ....i will do this in german, sorry .....possible someone can translate it....

Also ich habe nicht gesagt das die Stücke nicht um 1900 oder 1910 gefertigt wurden.......

Es geht eher darum ob man sich solch Stück für einen nicht geringen Wert in seine Sammlung legen sollte.....ich möchte niemanden bekräftigen solch Stück zu erwerben, darum ging es mir mit meiner getroffenen Aussage. Für ein wenig mehr Geld bekommt man ein nicht so "sagenumwogenes" Stück.

Für mich lässt sich der Fertigungszeitraum nicht eindeutig bestimmen, es handelt wie ja bekannt ist schon mal um kein Originalstück / Verleihungsstück. Also streng genommen um eine Kopie eines solchigen. Ich habe noch keines dieser Kreuze anhand von zeitgenösssichem Bildmaterial belegt gesehen.....wenne s sich wie so oft angeführt wird um ein "Spangenstück" handelt wo sind die Spangen auf denen es verbaut wurde ??? Die Trägerfotos hierzu ?

Für mich sprechen gegen einen Erwerb:

- Fertigungszeitraum nicht belegbar ....evtl. nach 45 ???

- Nicht durch Trägerbilder etc. zu belegen

- schlechte Qualität

also eher eine Glaubensfrage, wer dran glauben möchte solle dies bitte tun, ich tue es nicht. Mir gibt es einfach zu viel "Red Flags" um 200 oder mehr Euro für solch ein Stück zweifelhafter Herkunft zu bezahlen.......

Ww

[Montgomery Burns]

All I can say is that there is nothing wrong with the crosses under discussion here, except that the quality varies enormously. Some are quite nice, some are total crap.

so ,,opinions will have pro's and contras

This thread serves as a useful reminder to me why I never post anything interesting from my own collection anymore

accchhhh,, tough around here but ,,have a little Moore confidence in yourself ,,, you can can handle the heat ,I am sure

...

By the way, the AWS EK 1870 is shown in period photos and advertising.

thank god that one's solved ,,its far to beautiful to be a patriotic thing

..

[gregM]

Will someone please translate Walther's post? I would like to see
his opinion.

Thanks

[VtwinVince]

Greg, thanks for your synopsis, very clear as usual. Basically what Walther is saying is that he would rather pay slightly more for a definite award piece, than the fairly high price for one of these Jubilee pieces. He does not claim that they are outright fakes, but cites a lack of photographic evidence, indeterminate date of manufacture and poor quality as reasons for his not obtaining examples of this cross.

[AlikN]

Will someone please translate Walther's post? I would like to see
his opinion.

Thanks

Here is a google translation:

" So I did not say that the pieces were not manufactured in 1900 or 1910 ....... It is more about whether one should pay for such a piece of no small value in his collection ..... I would like to confirm anyone to purchase such a piece, so it went with me made my statement. For a little more money you get a not so "legendary" 'piece. For me, can the production period is not clearly determined, it is indeed as has been known to sometimes not an original piece / piece ceremony. So, strictly speaking, a copy of such a term. is led by evidence, I have none of these crosses using zeitgenösssichem images seen ..... s when, as so often is a "clip piece" is where the clips are where it has been installed? The photos on this institution? For me to speak against a purchase - not production time .... possibly assignable after 45? - Do not connect to carriers through pictures, etc. - poor quality is more a matter of faith to believe those who want to turn should do this please, I do not. To me it is just too much "red flags" to pay € 200 or more for such a piece of dubious origin .......

[Montgomery Burns]

you better not use Google again ...










.

[Montgomery Burns]

the translation

I did not say the items are not made around 1900/1910

its about the the question ,,if someone should buy this item fore the not small amount off money they cost ..

that was his point ,,,

fore a little Moore money you could get a less mythical peace

fore me,,, the production period is not clearly identifiable .
as it is knowingly not a awarded peace ....
looking closely ,,, a copy off an awarded peace ..
I have not seen any period evidence as pictures off this Iron cross .

if it is a spangen ( bar) peace,, as it so often has being called ...

where are the Bars they where put on ? in manufacture .
and the picture's off soldiers wearing them ?

fore me standing against an buy off these crosses stand

production period,,,, not identifiable ( maybe after 45 ?)

no period pictures found ore available (off soldier wearing it) as evidence

bad quality

so ,,it is a case off what you want to believe

who want to believe it is original ,, please do so

I do not believe it,, as there are to many red flags to invest 200 Euro or Moore ..fore a peace that is to doubtful about his origin


regards
Ww

not perfect ,,but better as google I hope

regards kay








.

[morel5000]

So Steve and Trevor, I would definitely like to see your interesting pieces.

So sorry there Steve, I meant Simon.

Best regards,
Michel

[gregM]

Thanks guys for the translations

We should not be afraid to post something here

[Von Eisen]

So that is kinda interesting... or should I say disappointing..

When somebody posts an interesting piece, like a wideframe 1813 (happened twice recently, not the same kind of pieces) it gets stigmatized /called a faked without real evidence.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1813

and

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1813

But interesting pieces from your own collections aren't shown on this forum, because that might exactly happen to them.

So what purpose serves this forum to you then? Discuss about other peoples collection and not showing your own interesting stuff?

The 1870 Ek2 in this thread is such an interesting piece. Some like it, some don't. Make up your own mind on this piece. BUT not showing this sort of pieces will not help (what I thought was) the real meaning of this forum, which is to acquire and accumulate a knowledge about (imperial) orders and awards.

So Steve and Trevor, I would definitely like to see your interesting pieces.

As a starter here is mine, an 1870 ek2 with a stepped core.

Best regards,
Michel

Hmmm, Well Michel, one of my "interesting pieces" is already in this thread and I have not personally commented on either of the threads you have posted links too

No offence intended, but posting your "interesting piece" does not help the discussion in hand, as its a different type of cross ... Maybe you should start a new thread for it

I can personally see what Trevor is saying, but I guess you and others may have a different opinion ... No worries, such is life

Best regards, Simon