Ekii 1870

[Don D.]

Given the variety of deformaties I am more and more inclined to think it is the metal composition. Iron, in and of itsself reacts to moisture in the air and will deterorate. I think the mix that this maker used must be particularly vulnerable.

[Von Eisen]

My example

[Von Eisen]

reverse

[streptile]

Nice one Simon.

[Von Eisen]

Thanks Trev

[Don D.]

How about this one?

[Montgomery Burns]

there are places where they are not so quick in adopting some popularity fore this type ...

http://h1797427.stratoserver.net/pub...k2/#post338884

so be careful investing in these crosses ...










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[streptile]

How about this one?

Hi Don,

Yep, that's the same type.

Andreas Thies just sold two of these in his most recent auction, too.

The prices were pretty unbelievable (and I should know).

Here's the nicer or the two.

[WaltherW]

I got a lot of 70 crosses in the last years between my hands....( the one or the other i have shown here in the past on waf ) and i will never give an euro for this type of crosses.... i dont like the quality.......

ww



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[streptile]

Hi Walther,

Can you show larger photos of the full-size cross shown here please? Front and back if possible.

Thank you

[WaltherW]

no prob



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[streptile]

Thank you again

[gregM]

Hi Walther,

Can you show larger photos of the full-size cross shown here please? Front and back if possible.

Thank you

Alos that mini if you don't mind.

[VtwinVince]

So now we are questioning the authenticity of these crosses right across the board? Or just the one that started this thread?

[streptile]

So now we are questioning the authenticity of these crosses right across the board? Or just the one that started this thread?

Just to be clear: it's only Walther who said he wouldn't buy one because the quality is not good, and Kay, who linked to a thread on SDA in which Mike Estelmann repeated his desire to see one in a period photo (also stated above) before making a final personal determination.

As attested to in this thread, Detlev Niemann, Andreas Thies, and Carsten Baldes know these to be original Jubilee pieces. These are three top names in Imperial German militaria of the past ten years. When Niemann had his for sale (seen HERE) I contacted him to ask about it; he wrote me back a nice email explaining that he knows these directly from the recipients' families, and that while they are not the same quality of the award-period originals, there was a real need for inexpensive replacement crosses in the later 19th C. Apparently an EK was a significant expense for many enlisted men. Marko Karg of Rheinland Orden also got the one he sold directly with a family group (I asked him too), and Thies' recent ones came, of course, from a famous old collection that was sold all together in the last auction.

If you don't trust dealers, then look to the bars and oakleaf attachments. Unlike the 9th Bead fakes, these are not found with fake sans-serif oaks, and (since I've looked in the past few weeks) I've seen a handful on period bars like Don's.

As for the objections registered above, I don't personally think it's reasonable to expect to be able to see every 1870 EK variant in a photo clearly. There are plenty of good 1870 EKs that are not visible in period photos. WWI-era replacement EKs are one type in particular that are hard to spot. Here's another one:



It's one thing to choose not to buy a piece because you don't like the quality; it's another thing all together to reject one based on quality alone. We all know that many original awards have middling workmanship, and also that many fakes exceed originals in quality. Also, quality of EKs tends to fall off between wars. We can see this with EKs made in the 1930s compared to those made in 1915, and we can see it with the 1957 series compared to a good wartime 1939 EK. After the wartime awards were distributed, and pieces were manufactured for purchase, there was a wider spectrum of quality (both luxury pieces as well as inexpensive ones, and so-called Spangenstücke).

In my personal opinion, and that of many others more expert than I, there is nothing wrong with this type. No one has to buy one, and I myself wouldn't buy the threadstarter -- but not because it's fake, just because it's at the very low end of the quality scale we see with this type.