Imperial Group of Five - help please

[nzef1940]

Greetings all,

I have just purchased the following group. I am still unpacking since a move and have not unpacked my Imperial medal book, could someone please advise if the second medal from the left is a Prussian, Order of the Crown 3rd Class with Swords or 4th class?

Comments re the medal or a link to a site regarding its history would also be appreciated. I keep just getting hits to red eagle orders etc..

Thanks in advance

Mike

[streptile]

Hi Mike,

Yes, it's a Crown Order 4th class with Swords on a Frack bar (that is upside down in your photo )

[nzef1940]

Many thanks Trevor

I take it this is the lowest grade of this order, and it was only awarded to officers and not NCO's and O/R's?

[VtwinVince]

Correct, and usually awarded for merit in the colonies, so I think your combination is highly unlikely.

[nzef1940]

Please explain why and note these are an auction buy and not a dealer purchase. I believe they are an indirect vet purchase.

Correct, and usually awarded for merit in the colonies, so I think your combination is highly unlikely.

[nzef1940]

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[nzef1940]

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[Don D.]

Can you post a full frontal pic right side up.

[saschaw]

I cannot comment if this crown order is a good one, but I can echoe the combination is extremely unusual, and possibly impossible. The crown order 4th class with swords was awarded to junior officers for the wars of 1864, 1866 and later for the colonial conflicts - to sum it up, it was awarded in those wars that had not the Iron Cross! The wearer of this bar was possibly not born in 1864 and 1866, and I cannot see anything that indicated colonial service.

A HOH3X (Royal house order of Hohenzollern, knight's cross with swords) is the usual late WW1 award to officers. Maybe the bar used to have one of these?

I have no doubts if the Kronen order itself is fake. It is good for sure. It's about the swords. Swords were and are faked and added to real crosses to make some extra $$$. The swords of real, contemporary and awarded KO4X are gold, die struck and hollow. If they are gilt, cast and massive...

[nzef1940]

Yes the order was instituted in 1861, but awarded up till 1918.

Is it possible to have pre war colonial service without a colonial service medal?

A 4th class holder listed below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedri...ndeiner-Wildau

Dan, I will post better images next week.

[römischIX]

aus dem bauch heraus gefällt mir der kronenorden und die schwerter nicht.
wäre es nicht wahrscheinlicher, ein MEZ an der spange hängen zu sehen?

[nzef1940]

I will post my own detailed images later next week.

Ich addiere meine ausführlichen Bilder nächste Woche

Mike

aus dem bauch heraus gefällt mir der kronenorden und die schwerter nicht.
wäre es nicht wahrscheinlicher, ein MEZ an der spange hängen zu sehen?

[saschaw]

What don't you like about the crown order itself?

A MEZ2 is not likely in this combiation. As said before, a HOH3X is the most usual you could expect on this war - for WW1, of course. A MEZ2 does not change the colonial issue here, as they were awarded for the same conflicts as the KO4X. And, is there anything on the bar that indicates an EM or NCO? No. there isn't.

I'd prefer you to write in English here, even if it's not that good. The English speaking are usualy writing in German on SDA.

[nzef1940]

Knowing the source and circumstances of this group, I have no doubts on originalilty. And as stated I will post my own detailed images next week.

[saschaw]

That's fine. I hope you can make pictures of soldering holes in the swords.