Godet

[Zepenthusiast]

Thanks, Trevor. I've found a bit of off-the-beaten path history in regard to Godet and needed to know this with certainty, to make sense of it. (Will post it soon.)

Prost,

Jim

[streptile]

I should say: 100% certainty that Gebr. Godet -- not J. Godet -- had LDO L/50 and PKZ 21. I think that's what you're asking, right?

[Zepenthusiast]

That's correct, Trevor--but is there yet another change of address for Gebr. Godet, then, sometime in the late 1930s from Charlottenstr. 55, Berlin to "L/50 Gebr. Godet & Co. Berlin W8 Jagerstr. 19" (WAF's reference list for LDO and PKZ numbers)?

I'll have to run back through this thread, but don't recall the latter coming up prior.

[streptile]

I've never heard that. Can you provide a link please?

Here's the Berlin phone book entry from 1943.

[Zepenthusiast]

Sure--could be in error, but this is what is posted here on the forum:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=Werner+ldo

and more directly here:http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/reserach_tools/ldo.htm

[streptile]

That list may be copied from this one. The reference material shown in the non-forum section of Wehrmacht-Awards.com is notoriously inaccurate. I'm not saying they definitely never had a Jägerstraße address, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this website's information.

[Zepenthusiast]

Here are the promised bits 'n pieces, which may fit together into a meaningful picture...

1) I stumbled upon a link here:

http://www.bfhg.de/die-hugenotten/hu...hkommen/godet/

that revealed the Godets were Hugenottes, French Protestants who had left their mother-country (and been welcomed into Prussia, in particular) after years of strife and no small amount of religious persecution. It accounts in a special way for their French names, but may also provide clues about their beliefs, politics and associations.

The name "Begás" that has left us somewhat baffled since Marshall's first posting of the stock certificate (post #282) turns out to be also Hugenotte, though it is correctly written without the accent mark. The latter stymied me until I discovered the name automatically carries an accent on the second syllable in the French language, but in German--if I understand correctly-- it would be naturally pronounced with the accent on the first syllable. That causes it to translate "fumigated"--not exactly a beguiling name for one's company (assuming you are not in the business of killing bugs!) By adding the accent, the name could be readily both pronounced correctly and disassociated from the undesired connotation. I'm suspicious this is the Begas in question (quoted from Berliner Magazine

Reinhold Begas 1831-1911

Seine monumentalen Arbeiten waren charakteristisch für das preußische Berlin der Kaiserzeit. Insbesondere Kaiser Wilhelm II. schätzte das Pathos der Arbeiten von Begas und verschaffte ihm nach 1888 eine Vielzahl an repräsentativen Aufträgen. Die bekanntesten Beispiele hierfür sind das Nationaldenkmal für Kaiser Wilhelm I., enthüllt 1897, die künstlerische Oberleitung an der „Siegesallee“ (1895–1901, zerstört), für die er selbst zwei Gruppen beisteuerte, und das 1901 fertiggestellte Bismarck-Nationaldenkmal vor dem Berliner Reichstag (heute am Großen Stern).
Reinhold Begas schuf außerdem 1886 bis 1891 den Neptunbrunnen am Berliner Stadtschloss (heute vor dem Berliner Rathaus).
Begas wurde auf dem Alten Kirchhof der Zwölf-Apostel-Gemeinde an der Kolonnenstraße beigesetzt.

He was very well known in his time and well-connected in the Kaiser's sphere:



He had a studio, employing and training other sculptors, though I have not yet been able to establish it was specifically incorporated as Begas & Co.

[Zepenthusiast]

Notice Reinhold Begas died in 1911. He had two sons, both of whom pursued art, but apparently did not achieve the same level of success (logical, given the demise of the monarchy and the economic chaos of the 20's). He was also the son of a famous portrait artist and had three brothers, also painters and sculptors. There is a museum dedicated to the family's work. Perhaps they may be able to help with the question.

Looking back through this thread, I cannot find any suggestion J. Godet & Sohn was either an A.G. or K.G. prior to the acquisition of "Begas & Co." The translation of the description accompanying sale of the stock certificates Marshall originally found (there are still a few being advertised out there, by the way, if anyone wants one!) was:

The company was founded in 1920 as Begás & Co. Ltd. and changed its name two years later, to J. Godet & Sohn AG. Origin of the company was the company founded in 1761 Godet & Sohn, the jewels, gold and silver medals as well as produced and traded in precious metals and stones. After 1937, the company changed its name as a KG.

If correct, it would seem J. Godet & Sohn acquired a corporate form (and stockholders??) via a buy-out of Begas & Co., only then becoming itself a corporation? This could have represented consolidation of "starving artists", perhaps?

[Zepenthusiast]

More pieces:

[brothers] Jean Louis Jules Godet (1864 - 1933); master 1889 & Jacques Eugene Godet (1866 - 1947)

(From Sterling silver collectors forum) Though he doesn't get as much press, not having designed the Hindenburg medal (easy to see why, given the year he died!), Jean Louis was the older brother and likely, by nature, the head guy at the firm. He would have been 65 to 66 years old, and Eugene just two years younger, when J. Godet & Sohn may very well have been voted out from under the family control. Not hard to understand how in forming Gebr. Godet they would have teamed with a banker (Oscar Mathesius), and with loss of Jean Louis in 1933, Eugene on his own would be an old man, for the time, and in need of some help: enter Conze, who had already proven he could take over and run a substantial--and previously family-held-but-now-"son-less"-company at Deumer:

He had planned well. In 1905 Deumer employed over 200 co-workers and was one of the most renowned manufacturers of pins and medals in Germany. This was the year Wilhelm Conze took over the business from Wilhelm Deumer’s son Hugo, left childless. Wilhelm Conze was a merchant. Seventh child of a silk manufacturer, he had grown up in a family that supplied the European market with high quality silk. He had spent four years in London where he became fascinated by the elegancy of fashion and accessories of the Edwardian style.

(Deumer Co. website)

[Zepenthusiast]

So here's my guess:

Godet brothers are no fans of the growing NSDAP, being disenfranchised Monarchists--still attached to the Kaiser-in-exile--and Hugenottes (still fresh memory of being isolated and persecuted by powerful goverments). Very late 20's and early 30's though, that may have been the best growing market for badges and orders, between the Party itself and those in the military who saw attraction in their desire to rebuild Germany's armed forces and prestige. Would that have been enough to cause stockholders to decide the aging brothers needed to be moved out of the way, so the company could pursue the work?

Am I wrong, or was Gebr. Godet very slow to make anything for the NSDAP or the resulting Third Reich? Prominent work for the Weimar government and Huis Doorn, but were the Red Cross badges (relatively innocuous...) their first work bearing a swastika? And when those were produced, was Eugene still actively calling shots at Gebr. Godet, or had Conze made the decision to sign up with the Third Reich?

Eagle's post #133 kind of slipped by (No. 2 note, in particular):

Eagle, Post #133



There was later three companies:

1. J. Godet & Sohn KG
2. Gebr Godet & Co.
3. Godet & Co.

No. 1 is by converting the J. Godet & Sohn AG and was formed from the 25.6.1937 in the commercial register.

No. 2 is of the jewelers Eugene Godet, Jean Godet and the banker Oscar Mathesius formed in 1930 as a partnership and was registered on 25.10.1930 in the commercial register. Since 1933, the owner of the company Wilhelm Deumer, Wolf Conze, co-owner of the company with effect from 5.6.1958 resolved. Last Seat Berlin, Tempelhofer Damm 127. Business and company have been transferred by inheritance of Dora Godet born Holst.

No. 3 is a public company since 1/10/1945 and has been on the 09/04/1946 with the shareholders Dora Godet born Holst and Georg Kaiser Register. At 05. June 1964 expired. Previous seat 1 Berlin 42, Tempelhofer Damm 127.

The samples, tools, stamps, records and archives of the house Godet lost during and after the war.

In 1964 the company "Die Ordenssammlung" took over (Owner Anneliese Klietmann) Godet. (purchased)

According to a note placed in the 60 years the company Juncker made for Godet (Die Ordenssammlung) eg Luisen-Order and several House Order of Hohenzollern for the general administration of the Prussian House.

The commercial register description would appear to settle the question of Deumer's influence. My guess is they would/will prove entirely responsible for eventually obtaining the PK and LDO numbers and producing the Godet Adler Orden, etc.

Obtaining influence--and likely eventually control--of Gebr. Godet gave Conze/Deumer everything they could want: lineage, prestige and a powerful physical presence in Berlin itself. If there is anything to that address "Godet & Co. Berlin W8 Jagerstr. 19", I wonder if you might be able to find it under "Deumer" in the Berlin phone directory?? Even though Eugene would go on to survive the war, I'd bet by 1937, at 71 he was disenfranchised (again) from his company, with little or no say (or perhaps even interest) in its operations.

[Zepenthusiast]

Lastly, to add some fuel to the connection J. Godet & Sohn A.G.-->K.G. appears to have had with the power-bloc in the Third Reich, note that 1) they were the attributed manufacturer of this little jewel (assuming Heusken has it right):

http://www.ma-shops.com/huesken/item...=44948&lang=en

(How's that for a price point? Makes a PlM look like a bargain!)

And 2), in supplementation to Dietrich's post #40, re the change from A.G. to K.G. reflected in J. Godet & Sohn's Oct '39 stationary, here is further communication documenting actual purchase of GFM shoulder-board devices from them, by the Präsidialkanzlei. Not just a bid, but a purchase. J. Godet & Sohn K.G. may not have had an LDO number, but they were definitely "go-to" for high-end items.
(web page screen cap from "The Marshal's Baton" site)



1940 and they are still using up the old stationary!

[streptile]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to run down this information and add it here, especially the links and photos. The Godets were indeed Huguenots.

It'll take me some time to digest all this information, but here's some things you may consider in the meantime. From your post:

So here's my guess:

1. Godet brothers are no fans of the growing NSDAP.
2. Am I wrong, or was Gebr. Godet very slow to make anything for the NSDAP or the resulting Third Reich?
3. If there is anything to that address "Godet & Co. Berlin W8 Jagerstr. 19", I wonder if you might be able to find it under "Deumer" in the Berlin phone directory??
4. My guess is they would/will prove entirely responsible for eventually obtaining the PK and LDO numbers and producing the Godet Adler Orden, etc.

1. No one can say what's in a man's heart, but Eugene Godet was by all accounts a dedicated Nazi.
2. Gebr. Godet seems to have been an early and enthusiastic retailer of Third Reich orders and medals.
3. Deumer is (famously) a Lüdenscheid company and has no presence in the Berlin phonebook at all.
4. I don't know who obtained the LDO license for them, or how, but the DAOs marketed by Gebr. Godet were made by CF Zimmermann, Pforzheim. Same with Gebr. Godet's EKs, RKs, oakleaves, Red Cross decorations, and more.

[streptile]

Anyway, the info you've brought up here is terrific, especially the links to the Huguenot History page

[Zepenthusiast]

Thanks, Trevor I did a lot of hypothesizing, trying to connect some dots in some fashion, and hoping you all would make more of and/or fix it!

Anything known re Jean Louis and the Nazis?

In a couple weeks of searching online, I couldn't find much of anything marked Gebr. Godet and bearing the swastika, aside from the Red Crosses, hence the speculation there. The PK and LDO number-bearing pieces are numerous, of course, but it made me wonder if they were "of a different era" for the company. If it would be appropriate for this thread and forum, would be interested to see more Gebr. Godet-marked TR items and get a better sense of what they were making.

With Deumer being a Ludenscheid company, and Berlin shaping up as the "center of the universe" in the 30's, it made me wonder if they established a business office there (that was what I was trying to imply), so as not to be too remote from the decision-makers. If they had no office in Berlin, perhaps all the more reason to be interested in linking up with the post-Jean Louis version of Gebr. Godet?

Any known link specifically between Deumer and C.F. Zimmermann? A curiosity the latter making so many "Godet" awards while the former enjoys significant ownership in the company!

[Biro]

...I did a lot of hypothesizing..,