Godet

[Zepenthusiast]

Trevor, Eagle, and anyone else in the know: in the 30's were "boxed" sales more in evidence than cased? Curious if a relative scarcity of one vs the other form of storage, given the multiple (and very nice, I might add!) versions of boxes presented. The survival of a box is perhaps all the more delightful than the somewhat more resilient structure of a case.

[streptile]

I would say, just based on anecdotal evidence (observation), small boxes are more common than cases. In the '30s, the highest need was probably for minis to wear on civilian clothing, for one thing. I've seen a few cases marked for Gebr. Godet (with the same logo as we see on the boxes), but these have mostly been deluxe boxes for Ordensketten and for medalbars (this one below was sold in the latest M-B update). This also makes perfect sense -- these things were worn in the '30s commonly.

[demir]

Have been asked by a friend to post his example of a Godet-Berlin maker mark on a TWM and the particularly interesting 'flying A' stamp also encountered on the pin.

Andreas (Medalnet) has a small selection of silver hallmarks on his website. He has a small image of the flying A ("flugel-a") as he calls it.

He notes the markings was introduced in 1902.

Marshall

Hi,
Is it possible to post the obverse of the TWM.
Thanks
Demir

[Biro]

Thanks to the very kind and anonymous help of a forum member here, I can now offer the following translation of the article I found in a Dutch newspaper dated 11 October, 1929 which pretty much confirms the relationship formed between J Godet, Janus und and J H Werner at the very end of the twenties. The new venture was overseen by one of the Wilm family, with that company also being an (independent) 4th member of the buying conglomerate.

I note with interest that the new venture had 'some twenty shops throughout EUROPE - not just Germany.

I wonder if Godet had a reasonable percentage of these 'shops' and where they might have been? I also wonder what implication that has for the numerous J Godet maker marks encountered on various products?

Here's the translation...

A communality of interest with (= joint venture of?) four German firms. The concern will be a key purchase organization for Germany. 
It is reported from Berlin that the old and well known Berlin firms of J.H. Werner, Friedrichstrasse, Sy & Wagner, Unter den Linden, Janns und Friedirch, Leipziger Strasse and J. Godet & Sohn A.G. , Charlottenstrasse, will enter into a joint venture, which will be administered by a G(emeinschaft) m(it) b(eschränkter) H(aftung) (= a limited liability company). 
The cooperation was established under leadership of C.J.A. Begeer, director general of the N.V. (= PLC) Koninklijke Edelmetaal Bedrijven (= today’s ”Royal Begeer” of Voorschoten, The Netherlands).
The management of the GmbH has been entrusted to F.R. Wilm, partner of the firm H.J. Wilm of Berlin, and Dirk Vos, director of N.V. Koninklijke Edelmetaal Bedrijven.
The firm of H.J. Wilm has, under preservation of its independence, also joined the joint venture. 
The firms will continue as before, with this exception, that the firm of J. Godet & Sohn A.G. will be established at (the offices of) I.H. Werner, Friedrichstrasse 173.
The firm of J. Godet & Sohn A.G. already exists for 160 years, the firm of Sy & Wagner approximately 100 years, the firm of J.H. Werner 59 years and the firm of Janns und Friedirch 50 years. 
It is further reported: 
The new joint venture has some twenty shops throughout Europe and is the largest jewelers-trust in the world. It is hoped that through the now established direct link with the Dutch diamonds market and with the pearls- and diamonds areas in the Dutch East Indies, ( raw material) can be acquired more cheaply than before. The leader of the new firm, Mr. F.R. Wilm, has for years maintained close, friendly  relations with Messrs. Begeer and Vos. Mr. Begeer, who is amongst other things chairman of the Chamber of Commerce for Germany, has had his training in Germany, specifically at the jewelers school at Hanau am Main. His friendly relations with several of the largest German jewelers dat from that period. 

[streptile]

Marshall!

Magnificent contribution that confirms and expands upon many of the ideas we've developed in this thread.

If I may, I'll summarize what this translation tells us about Godet:

In October 1929 it was announced that J. Godet would join forces with three other companies (Werner, S-W, Janus u. Friedrich) to form a major conglomerate of Berlin jewelers called (I think) Deutsche Juweliere (German Jewelers). The administration of this conglomerate was entrusted to one Dirk Vos, a Dutchman, and H.J. Wilm of WILM, whose company was also part of the group while simultaneously maintaining its independence. This explains earlier rumors (which I mentioned upthread somewhere) that WILM bought Godet. Not quite true, but one can see how the story got started.

The article also notes specifically (as we knew) that J. Godet was to be relocated to the offices of Werner at 173 Friedrichstraße.

Now we can fully understand the letterhead:



So, it was after this major announcement that Eugene Godet broke off from his old company and formed Gebrüder Godet.

[streptile]

Now, about Gebr. Godet...

This thread recently sparked a very interesting conversation about Gebr. Godet. All the details can be found there, but I will summarize what I believe to be the lesson we can draw from that discussion:

Gebr. Godet did not manufacture their own Iron Crosses. They bought them, pre-made and pre-marked. I believe this is also true of other famous "Gebr. Godet" awards, including Red Cross decorations, German Eagle Orders, 1939 Knight's Crosses of the Iron Cross, Oakleaves to the 1939 Knight's Cross, Oakleaves with Swords, etc.

I believe that C.F. Zimmermann supplied many (if not most) of Gebr. Godet's stock, although there were other suppliers. For example, B.H. Mayer supplied some EKs for a limited time, and some mystery maker supplied German Crosses in Gold and Silver (unless Gebr. Godet made these themselves, which is popssible). But I think Zimmermann was the biggest supplier. The reasons for this can be found in the above-linked thread. For some more interesting evidence, please see this photo of the latest lot of burnt stuff from the Zimmermann factory fire to emerge on the market:

[streptile]

I think that about updates this colossal thread. Any more info, ideas or questions on the Godet saga, please post them.

[Miro O]

Can´t stop looking at that buttonhole mini. Button is the type never seen by me, and missing in your Godet button summary as well, Trevor.

[streptile]

Yes, you're quite right! Interesting. Well, one more to look for...

[saschaw]

Sorry I'm not having the time to read that whole 12 page thread thread, but just wanted to add(?) WW1 Württemberg Friedrichs orders were made by the royal mint in Stuttgart - who sold some of their stamps a. s. o. to Zimmermann after 1918. Just in case this is not known...

[Biro]

A couple of interesting images I stumbled on recently - the first is (I believe) a 'stock certificate' from 1928 - although my lack of german means I can't really decipher anything on the document itself.


The description from the auction house states:


"...Gesellschaft wurde 1920 als Begás & Co. AG gegründet und firmierte bereits zwei Jahre später in J. Godet & Sohn AG um. Ursprung der Firma war die 1761 gegründete Firma Godet & Sohn, die Juwelen, Gold- und Silberwaren sowie Orden herstellte und mit Edelmetallen und -steinen handelte. Nach 1937 firmierte die Gesellschaft als KG..."


Can anyone explain what the reference to Begás & Co. AG means?

[Biro]

And in the second document, a more direct reference to "Begás & Co. AG".

The auction house description reads:

"Gründung 1920 als Begás & Co. AG, 1922 in J. Godet & Sohn AG umfirmiert. Fortführung der seit 1761 bestehenden Firma Godet & Sohn (Herstellung und Verkauf von Juwelen, Gold- und Silberwaren und Orden, Handel mit Edelmetallen und Edelsteinen). 1937 Umwandlung in eine Kommanditgesellschaft."


And thanks to the kind help of a forum friend, I am reliably informed this translates as:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Established in 1920 as Begás & Co. AG, transformed (merged?) into J. Godet & Sohn AG in 1922. Continuation of the Firm Godet & Sohn, established in 1761 (manufacture and sale of jewelry, gold- and silverware and orders, trade in precious metals and precious stones). Transformed in a partnership with silent partners in 1937"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Established in 1920 as Begás & Co. AG?

Merged into the existing J. Godet & Sohn company in 1922?

Any help here deciphering what this document says and what that means and who Begás & Co. AG were would be fantastic!

[demir]

Thanks for great information

[Zepenthusiast]

I'm drawing this question over from the Bronze PAB thread, for Trevor , Marshall or anyone:

[

QUOTE=Andreas Klein;6247348]Hi Norm,

in the meantime i've checked several official order list dealing with the KC, IC, WB and KVK which were given out before the LDO and PK numbersystem had started if there is "J. Godet" on it.

This firm is not on any of the official lists, the only listed Godet ist "Gebrüder Godet, Charlottenstr. 55, Berlin" which is our LDO L/50, PK 21 Godet.

Hi Andreas,
I found my way here from the mammoth Godet thread Trevor mentions earlier. Trying to nail down one thing: Is there certainty, in the form of official lists/written evidence using the street address, etc., that it was Gebr. Godet which possessed the LDO & PK numbers? Been searching for a few days now and find things marked with the numbers or the name, but so far never both. (Going to bounce the same question off Trevor and the other guys in the Imperial section.)

Thanks!
Jim[/QUOTE]

[streptile]

Is there certainty, in the form of official lists/written evidence using the street address, etc., that it was Gebr. Godet which possessed the LDO & PK numbers?

100% certainty.