Godet

[Komtur]

Thank you for your input Komtur.

In your opinion, is the star pictured directly above marked 'GODET SILBER 935' a product of:

1) the firm established in 1946 by Dora Godet known as 'Godet u. Co',
2) the 1960's 'GODET' run by Anneliese Klietmann,
3) the Juncker firm, re-established post WW2
4) None of these three..


Marshall

I am afraid 4) and a copy from the 1970ies.

Regards, Komtur.

[Don D.]

So when did this mark appear?

[Zepenthusiast]

Hi Komtur (and Don),

I am afraid 4) and a copy from the 1970ies.

And what of the GODET mark on it--in your opinion a copy of an actual Gebr. Godet mark, or an invention of the copier?


Regards,

Jim

[Zepenthusiast]

This is likely a question for Marshall:

Is there a chance of getting a close-up of the GODET mark on the questionable breast star which is "square on" and not angulated? It is difficult to resolve if the top of the "E" runs into the "T", for instance.

[Komtur]

Hi Komtur (and Don),




And what of the GODET mark on it--in your opinion a copy of an actual Gebr. Godet mark, or an invention of the copier?


Regards,

Jim

Unfortunately I am not able to answer your question. I am searching not for Godet generally, only for the HOH, specially the Doorn period items.

Without any doubt the GODET BERLIN 935 marked stars (you will only find stars and no crosses of that style and with this mark!) are not official awarded decorations ("probemäßig") before 1918. There are also no such items to be found, connected with persons, decorated within the Doorn period. The quality and style is not, what I expect and what you will find for official and Doorn period items. They are sold by Dorotheum and Thies as copies for some years. The pricerange of original Komtur- and Großkomturstars is today between 4.000 and 10.000 Euros, it is very hard, to find them. The stars of the discussed type, you find often and you can get them on auctions regularly under 1.000 Euros. I got the personal information of a famous dealer, who sells orders and decorations for more than 40 years, that he is sure, they are made in the 1970ies.

Taken all together, there is IMHO no really chance for these stars to be anything else, than modern fakes.

Best Regards, Komtur.

[Biro]

?.. I got the personal information of a famous dealer, who sells orders and decorations for more than 40 years, that he is sure, they are made in the 1970ies.

Taken all together, there is IMHO no really chance for these stars to be anything else, than modern fakes.

Best Regards, Komtur.

Thanks Komtur.

This is likely a question for Marshall:

Is there a chance of getting a close-up of the GODET mark on the questionable breast star which is "square on" and not angulated? It is difficult to resolve if the top of the "E" runs into the "T", for instance.

Hi Jim

Sadly I can't do anything better with the maker mark - the HOH star is not mine, it is being offered by emedals and is only of interest to me (as you know) because of the GODET maker mark. Being so similar if not identical to the GODET mark found on some 'Dead-eye' PLM's, I hoped it could provide one way or another some sort of date we could pin it down to.

From Komturs remarks, and in the opinion of Thies (who would have to be considered a very respectable dealer) that may not be either possible nor reassuring.

That is - of course - totally dependent on whether the GODET marks found on both these contentious high-end items are in fact the same and I could not swear to that.

If you or anyone else wants to explore this connection further, we should probably do it in this thread http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=506454 so we don't divert this already important Godet thread away from its essence.

Marshall

[VtwinVince]

Has anyone seen the 'JGS'-marked PLM offered on Weitze's site with provenance from Hauptmann von Plehwe? Might be a good one to put on this thread, if no copyright laws are broken.

[Les]

Has anyone seen the 'JGS'-marked PLM offered on Weitze's site with provenance from Hauptmann von Plehwe? Might be a good one to put on this thread, if no copyright laws are broken.

This item and the grouping with it "grew" something it didn't have a few years ago.

Several years ago, I saw this at the MAX Show. I talked to the owner about where he got it, when, whether there was anything else, etc. All there was to the grouping was the medal, a photo, and a letter said to be written by Plehwe's daughter. There wasn't anything else. Detlev bought the piece from that fellow, the last day of the show.

At the time I saw it in person, it didn't have a presentation case. Niemann sold it when he decided it was time to get out of the business of being a dealer.

Someone has recently added a case to the grouping.

[Eagle]

I think this is a very interesting and defensible theory.

Does it mean that no awards were manufactured by Godet after 1944? Or did "Godet und Co." eventually manufacture tools and dies for making various awards? Interestingly, this piece (marked for Godet and thought to be postwar) seems to be from different tools:
So did Godet make their own tools later?

I thing Godet was making awards after 1944 - 1964.
But we must note, that we have two Godet Companys in Berlin since 1946.

1st: Gebr. Godet & Co (90 HRA 88 050) since 25. October 1930, closed 5. June 1958 (Inheridet in June 1958 by Dora Godet-Holst)
"Einzelhandel mit Uhren, Gold- und Silberwaren, Abzeichen und Geschenkartikeln."

2nd: Godet u. Co (90 HRA 948/Nz.) since 9. April 1946, closed 5. June 1964 (Owner was Dora Godet-Holst)

So, since June 1958 - June 1964, we have only one Godet-Company, owned by Dora Godet. Since June 1964, the rest of this company was taken by Anneliese Klietmann - "Die Ordenssammlung".

If we know that the Juncker Company is closed in Dec. 1965, and we find the notice of K-G. Klietmann, that Junckers make for "Godet" some houseorders in behalf of Anneliese Klietmann, than we know that this must happened between June 1964 - Dec. 1965.
In the periode before Godet can make their own awards, if them was needed.

Huuu....

And for now:

Die Ordenssammlung Historia Antiquariat Anneliese Klietmann Inh. Irene Teichert


10969 Berlin
Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Telefonnummer: (030) 6143027

[Komtur]

I thing Godet was making awards after 1944 - 1964.
But we must note, that we have two Godet Companys in Berlin since 1946.

1st: Gebr. Godet & Co (90 HRA 88 050) since 25. October 1930, closed 5. June 1958 (Inheridet in June 1958 by Dora Godet-Holst)
"Einzelhandel mit Uhren, Gold- und Silberwaren, Abzeichen und Geschenkartikeln."

2nd: Godet u. Co (90 HRA 948/Nz.) since 9. April 1946, closed 5. June 1964 (Owner was Dora Godet-Holst)

So, since June 1958 - June 1964, we have only one Godet-Company, owned by Dora Godet. Since June 1964, the rest of this company was taken by Anneliese Klietmann - "Die Ordenssammlung".

If we know that the Juncker Company is closed in Dec. 1965, and we find the notice of K-G. Klietmann, that Junckers make for "Godet" some houseorders in behalf of Anneliese Klietmann, than we know that this must happened between June 1964 - Dec. 1965.
In the periode before Godet can make their own awards, if them was needed.

...

I would like to add the following:

1.) The Gebr. Godet & Co. shop was destroyed in 1944 by a bomb raid.
2.) The HOH of all classes produced in the late doorn period (1931 - ???) by Gebr. Godet & Co. are really rare birds.
3.) Why should Anneliese Klietmann in 1964, now owner of both former Godet companies, ask Juncker to make HOH insignia, if there are now the tools in her hands?

I guess, there was no production of HOH by Gebr. Godet & Co. after 1944, because there were no useable tools still existant AND there was no need for it too. Therefore, when in the 1960ies there was the inquiry of the House of Hohenzollern to the Godet/Klietmann company, Anneliese Klietmann was forced to ask somebody else to produce the HOH insignia.

Regards, Komtur.

[Eagle]

I agree! I dont say that Godet make some HoH after 1944. I dont know this. But Godet make some other "Abzeichen" indeed. I dont know what else...

We know, all tools are lost in 1944. But is it able, that Godet have made some new tools after 1944?

It is able that Anneliese borrow this fictive tools to Juncker?

I think noone know this. It is able but not sure!

So I belive in the HoH from the Doorn period, nothing more, and nothing less.

@Komtur

I think, next time in the Herold Archive, we must take a look in the capsule of Juncker!

[RAO]

@Komtur

I think, next time in the Herold Archive, we must take a look in the capsule of Juncker!

It is a good idea. When would you go, I come with you. ;o)

Regards Mike

[Biro]

It is a good idea....

An extremely good idea - hard to believe it hasn't been done yet though... One would expect Dietrich might have had a rummage through the Juncker capsule?

Let us know what you find!

Marshall

[Roglebk]

Godet buttons

Long thread so bear with me if these already been posted.

[Roglebk]

EK1/EK2 combo

Made of Neusilber, crosses lost all the black color despite the core being stippled (or was never painted.)

On the button some interesting numbers have been engraved. "30.10" on top of the "J.Godet & Sohn Berlin" and below is "33". I think it's a date but could it be a unit of some sort too?