This one came home for the weekend. It belonged to the former Hannoverian General von Floeckher, and I believe it to be a private purchase from about 1880. The engraving might be useful for our thread on that subject as well.
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Unbelievable! What a monumental acquisition.
In my opinion it was made by AWS in the late 19th C.
Can you explain why you believe it to have been privately purchased around 1880? Is it our collective research into this type that leads you to this conclusion, or is it something about the General's story that you know? I am interested in any piece of information, no matter how small, you can give me about this cross, its provenance, its path to your collection, and its original owner.
Finally, any case? I have a case I believe to be made for this specific type of cross.Best regards,
Streptile
Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ) -
nice one i think private purchased, too.
aws - seems to be right.
but when was it made? i don`t know.Comment
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Vince! WoW! That is an awesome cross
I am in
Congrats!!!
GregComment
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the nice comments. Trevor, since the general died in 1891, the cross would have to predate this. My dating was only a rough guess, since as you know I am a relative idiot when it comes to EK's. I don't have a case for it, unfortunately, but would love to acquire one, should you have an extra. I picked this one up from a very well-known collector in the US, who had it in his collection for many years. I was in fact looking for an award piece, but when this one came up with the provenance, it seemed too good a piece not to pick up. What do you think of the reverse hardware? I'm assuming both pin and catch are replacements? Have you seen those type of clip hooks before?Comment
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Very nice wideframe 1870.
I HAVE seen these style hooks before. In fact just recently there
was a 1914 on ebay with hooks very similar. If I would have been
thinking, I would have saved the pictures.
Like Trevor said, any information on this piece or the generals history even
would be very interesting to see. I am not completely convinced of the
AWS connection but Treveor has done some very good research and
presented some compelling arguments.
Congrates again on a nice 1870 Ek1.Comment
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Greg, his full name was Adolf Wilhelm August Franz Leopold Jacob von Floeckher, born 10.10.1814 Hildesheim, died 27.11.1891. He was apparently best known for his gallantry at Woerth, where he led the 6. Grenadier Regiment. He was awarded the EK1 on 16.2.71 and was then enobled on 16.6 for actions during the 1870 war. He held many other orders, including the Red Eagle 2nd Class with Oakleaves and Star, and the Crown Order 1st Class with '50' Jubilee Device.Comment
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A nice cross - was he still in uniform at 66 years of age Vince?Originally posted by VtwinVince View Post
MarshallComment
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Very cool.
I am glad that we know he died in '81. That makes my wide frame
being made a bit earlier than we thought. From everything I have
heard, I assumed these to be made post 1914.Comment
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Hi Greg,Originally posted by gregM View Post
I have long considered these to be AWS pieces from around 1900, give or take a decade. Vince's piece is very interesting to me, as it is to you, because it skews that window to the early side. As I think you know, I myself am perfectly convinced the maker is AWS, and I think the evidence is awfully compelling. Out of curiosity, can you explain your doubts? Also, why did you think post-1914?
Hi Vince,Originally posted by Vince
Not only have I seen one of these before, I have seen a dozen or more, and I own one. The hinge- and catch-plates, as well as the stabilizing catches, are all textbook, from-the-workshop parts of this cross. The only non-standard thing about yours is the engraving. I can show some photos, and also write a bit more, but later -- I am still at work at this moment.
Best regards,
Streptile
Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)Comment
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I think the weight of the provenance will be key here... I'm not sure the engraving alone is enough to hang a manufacturing date on, because (and i think we can agree its not the piece he was awarded in 1871) even an 1880 production date for the AWS cross means this General would have had to have purchased and engraved this piece as he neared his 70's and had (presumably) long since retired.Originally posted by streptile View Post
Not at all beyond the realms of possibility though....
MarshallComment
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Marshall, I have studied the engraving VERY closely, and I am in no doubt that it is genuine and period. Just looking in the entry from 'Soldatisches Fuehrertum', it says von Floeckher was pensioned, 'zur Disposition gestellt', on 15.4.1882 and awarded the Red Eagle 1st Class with Oakleaves and Enamel Ribbon of the Crown Order.Comment
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Hi Marshall,Originally posted by Biro View Post
I agree -- which is the main reason I am so interested to confirm the provenance of this piece, insofar as it's possible to do so. Those wily ol' 19th C. Prussians lived til a ripe old age. Both Moltke and Wilhelm I, for example, lived (and wore their uniforms and decorations) til age 91.
In any case, I think the cross is magnificent, and the provenance is fascinating. Putting this piece ten years earlier than I thought, even provisionally, is exciting news to me.
Vince,
Any chance of nice, good, focused photos of the engraving?Best regards,
Streptile
Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)Comment
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Trevor, here is a shot of the engraving, unfortunately not the greatest quality, as I can't get the cross with open pin into the scanner.Comment
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Thanks, Vince.
This weekend I will have some time to show some photos of my twin, but for now I'll upload some shots of another one.
One more question: is your cross one of the most substantial, heaviest EKs you've got? My example is quite robust.Best regards,
Streptile
Looking for ROUND BUTTON 1939 EK1 Spange cases (LDO or PKZ)Comment
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