Pour Le Merite

[JamesUS]

I regret that WAF member -=Re-Sa=- [Sasha] has not replied in this thread, though aware of it.
Though not wishing to state the price he [she?] sold it to or to whom, he did say that he sold it for "less than 4200 Eur", to me that implies that he got a fairly large amount of $ for what was known, in a 5 page thread, as a fake ,,, And the only way you can get that kind of $$ for a PLM is if the buyer believes it genuine.

It could be that the new owner believes this is legit, perhaps the OP of this thread can make the current owner aware of it.

[-=Re-Sa=-]

Ok, I must reply here...
I have sold this piece for fair price, NOT like original!
I have told James that piece like this cost 4200 Eur on Weitze shop.
I did NOT sold the PLM for that price!
When I have sold this PLM to other WAF member, I have show him my discusion thread... so please dont tell that I have someone riped!

I do not intend to tell the price if my customer wants to resell a PLM!
But we all know how much are the prices for such pieces, if someone have one for 1000 €, I am ready to buy it!
Regards
Sasha

[-=Re-Sa=-]

I do not know what is the purpose of this discussion?
Price or originality?
If James wants to buy a original PLM then he must prepare at least € 25,000, not $ 4000!

Regards
Sasha

[Montgomery Burns]

[QUOTE

If James wants to buy a original PLM then he must prepare at least € 25,000, not $ 4000!

=-=Re-Sa=-;4410765]I do not know what is the purpose of this discussion?
Price or originality?

to let you learn that what you do is not so ok as you think it is ...










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[Don D.]

Perhaps the current seller should be directed to this thread.

[-=Re-Sa=-]

[QUOTE




to let you learn that what you do is not so ok as you think it is ...










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I felt directly challenged ...


Price between me and the customer will always be discreet!
If my buyer resells a dead eye which not reach 10-20% price of the original PLM, then I am not sure that he want someone to rip.

Don, I will send the PM to the buyer, if he want then he will join the discusion.

[JamesUS]

Well, if a fake PLM costs 4200 Eur, then I stand in error.

I am not trying to insult your integrity Sasha, your non reply in a matter that concerned you was suspicious to me, now that you have replied, is a very good sign ,, And if you showed the buyer the original thread, all the more so.
I am at a loss though how some can say it is worth $1,000's, and others say junk, save your $$.

[USGI]

Sasha sold me this PLM, in his defence he attached the link to the discussion up front. I've read every post with every view point until my eyes bled, many times. I don't see a connection with Cejalvo? I hear "Spanish Fake" thrown around pretty loosely but when I compare the PLM to others named as "Spanish fakes" they don't compare.

I haven't seen one shred of evidence that this PLM was made by anyone in Spain. I personnaly don't think the PLM is a "Fake." Mercury fire gilt hasn't been done since the early 40s. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me however, that's my opinion.

If anyone out there can provide a connection to Cejalvo or Spain please let me know.

[-=Re-Sa=-]

James, I dont want to reply because it was already everything told in the pasted thread.
I also know for what price has member in other discusion bought his PLM, this was in year 2006, and his price was very close to here quoted price.

Bill, thank you for reply... it was exactly as you wrote

[JamesUS]

Fine Sasha, you are not obliged to reveal price, now that you and current owner are discussing this, I consider it none of my business.

[Zepenthusiast]

Hi USGI,

Cejalvo is known to have produced a very high quality (which is their business--check out their web site) copy of the PlM, in presumed limited--but unknown--numbers. They were fundamentally of this "type," which Marshall christened "dead eye," excepting two things: the examples I have seen pictured lacked the correct form of suspension and were, at least originally, unmarked.

This piece, as discussed in the other thread cited, has a more correct (but still not-quite-right) version of the suspension and bears markings. The 938 in particular is of concern, as you appreciate, since it advances a more significant claim as to date of manufacture. I suspect that (and the suspension) is why Les suggested this is a reworked Cejalvo. In many--but definitely not all--respects, it is beautifully made and as fine a representation of the jeweler's art as an original PlM (certainly NOT true of the bulk of copies out there). That alone justifies value to a purchaser--whatever the market for such will bear--as long as what is and isn't known is exchanged honestly. I'm not sure how you can be certain it was fire-gilded by appearance alone. Even if it were, the process is simply illegal and somewhat dangerous, not un-"do-able," since the 40's. I have also raised in the other thread my questions about the finish, enamel, etc. in contemplating when and how this was made, so won't bring them up again. Just wanted to chime-in to respond to your Cejalvo information request. It is not, of course, a "Spanish Fake" in the usual usage, as you have said.

[USGI]

Jim,
Thanks for your input, I agree this PLM is not in any form what I would consider as a lot have stated a "Spanish fake." I have been to the Cejalvo web site, yes they make very nice awards that's all I can gather. I've also been to other web sites of previously known makers of awards, again they make nice things but...

I hear Cejalvo over and over and still as of this post have not seen one solid shred of evidence to connect my PLM with that company. I'll take it further, I haven't seen a shred of solid evidence that any "Dead Eye" was made by Cejalvo.

I have with my own eyes seen a picture of another PLM like mine with provenance.

My PLM is old, very even thick patina. I know what acid does to age things and this PLM doesn't have that.

Yes, fire gilt is illegal, IMO that excludes Cejalvo.

Can mercury fire gilt be done today? IMO it's possible but not likely.

Lots of theories but little to zero evidence, at least from what I can see. Please don't take this as an insult but I personally can't make the connections based on what has been said. It's 0333 I'm burned out, if the cross is not worth $2000 less than what HW is asking so be it. I just can't find another PLM like it on the market to compare.

[Montgomery Burns]

I wood like to see an Cejalvo PLM next to the one shown here .

I think it wood help a lot








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[-=Re-Sa=-]

USGI, you can compare your PLM with this one:
https://www.weitze.net/detail/54/Ord...k__123854.html

Weitze answer to some waf member, that he become this PLM from an old collector, which has have this PLM many years in his collection, I think he say from early 50s.

[Montgomery Burns]

its not a Godet style PLM and I wood not see it as anything original ...
and the price Weize is making is based on what they paid themselves fore it ,,,

,but also Weize can make mistakes wile buying ...I wood see this as a mistake ...
but that is Weize's own responsibility...not mine to judge ..



but ,,that makes the thread starter a puzzle that cant be solved ...

Weize selling the same as 50's and think its good
you take Weize as example so ,,WY not ...

no matter what we say here ,,,its you're responsibility..

I can not say you did wrong ,,,,,but I wood never do a selling like this ....as I am just having a different opinion about how to sell items ....





kay



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