Another Engraved EK1 KO marked

[Brad Posey]

Here is the second engraved EK1, this one is KO marked.

Opinions please.


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[Brad Posey]

Last two pics.


Thanks!


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[AlikN]

Doesn't look like hand engraving, looks more like modern template engraving.

...why someone would have a signature engraved ...

[Brad Posey]

The engraving is of Kaiser Wilhelm's signature. Isn't it?

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[tpies]

Engraved Cross

I have collected EKs since 1983 and had these 2 engraved pieces for a long time. Brad was nice enough to post these two. What I was told when I bought it from what I beleive was a very reputable dealer was that it was a presentation piece with Wilhelm IIs signature. I later saw pictures of him presenting EK1s to a group of Western Front soldiers during Christmas 1917. I've always thought it was possible this might be one of those medals. I did see another KO like it in Stuttgart a few years later but wasn't able to examine it closely but I know it wasn't dated. I don't know if anyone else knows if this was a custom of the Kaiser or not or have seen one of these before. I've never read about it anywhere so that is mainly why I asked to Brad post it for me.

Thank you your opinions,

Tim

[VtwinVince]

Tim, it's impossible to say on this one, but I must say the engraving is good, looks period and was hand done. I wouldn't boot it out of my collection

[Kraal]

Don´t like this engraving.. It IS a original EK1 from KO, but engraving and especially the date number style looks too much of a modern copy. Personally I consider them as a fake engravings.


greetings
Andy

[Andy K.]

I have no doubts; this engraving is a modern fake.

The style of the date and the kind like the whole engraving has been made is not contemporary.

Andy

[Ivan Barker]

Andy K. if I may ask what tips you off that this is a modern fake? I'm trying to learn what to look for, I have discovered that Imperial collecting is more user friendly than TR. So before I make the leap I would like to learn from the experts on what to look for!

Ivan

[saschaw]

While I do like the other one, I have to agree here: don't like this style of engraving. Kaiser's signature would be odd, but not impossible - but the style of the date is nothing like WW1 era.

[Brad Posey]

While I do like the other one, I have to agree here: don't like this style of engraving. Kaiser's signature would be odd, but not impossible - but the style of the date is nothing like WW1 era.

That was my opinion too. The date is "punched" - stamped - not engraved.

On the other hand...if it is fake (the engraving) there should be more of these out there. I guess the same would apply if they are real...

Anyone seen anything like this before?

Keep the comments and opinions coming.

Thanks

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[AlikN]

This cross was engraved by using a similar engraving machine(most popular from Hermes), there are all different fonts available and you can make your own templates, like it was done with a signature. Lines on this type of engraving are always the same one width - very thin, because it's done by the 'needle'(A), on that picture it's not visible - view blocked by the arm. Machine is not hard to use, 'needle'(B) goes into the template and output on 'needle'(A) can be adjusted to any size.

Lines of hand engraving on a other hand is never the same width, there are curves and turns that are wider some places and there are thinner lines, because engraving tool changing angles on turns in the hands of a jeweler, but this is not happening with needle, every curve-turn and strait lines are the same.

.....In the shop worked we had one of those Hermes, I played with it for about three years and done a lot of experiments.

[Brad Posey]

That is an interesting machine, I assume this is a modern machine? Or did they have this in WW I?


If not, then that will settle this engraving question.


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[Don D.]

On the other hand...if it is fake (the engraving) there should be more of these out there. I guess the same would apply if they are real...


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Hi Brad, I would never assume by the quantity that an item is fake or real. For example, how many crosses would one expect to find with Willy's signature on them? Perhaps the guy tried it, floated it around for opinions and when it didn't get rave reviews he moved on to a different scam. Who knows.

As an aside, there was once a guy that used to fake $5 bills by hand, one at a time, only as he needed them.

[Brad Posey]

Hi Brad, I would never assume by the quantity that an item is fake or real. For example, how many crosses would one expect to find with Willy's signature on them? Perhaps the guy tried it, floated it around for opinions and when it didn't get rave reviews he moved on to a different scam. Who knows.

As an aside, there was once a guy that used to fake $5 bills by hand, one at a time, only as he needed them.

Don, I agree.

I guess if this machine did not exist in 1914 - 1918 then it is certain that it is a fake - the engraving.

The fact that so far most here are of the opinion the engravnig is fake and that no one else has seen one it is not looking too good for this one.

What it is "trying" to be is an official presentation piece from the Kaiser himself. We know from photos he handed out EKs at the front. But were there any attempts to engrave these with his initials?


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