1914 EK I Prinzen - Help!!

[AFF96]

[ATTACH]1679384[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]1679385[/ATTACH]

[AFF96]

Hi guys!
I'm looking at this 1914 EK I prinzen that I have been told is a Deumer. All help/thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciate. There seems to be some question about the pin set up as well. So I must decide whether to pull the trigger on it as it's on hold.
Sorry only pics available.
Greatly appreciate the help!!
Greg
434a.jpg

434c.jpg

[Kraal]

Let it go and punch the liar.

greetings
Andy

[Don D.]

I agree. Not one I would want.

[AFF96]

That is absolutely great news! I didn't have a very good feeling about it!!
Appreciate it
Greg

[streptile]

Let it go and punch the liar.

I like that expression. I will adopt it from now on...

[Roglebk]

Greg> Did the seller say it's a Deumer? Still not convinced it's bad but the new pics did not help at all.

My thoughts about it, from our mails.

"Core looks a lot like the Deumer Prinz but never seen that butt ugly hardware on any cross before."

"If beading matches the other Deumers it's ok i guess but Ask Trev what he thinks of the hardware, to me it looks completely wrong."

"All Pinback Deumer (4-5) i saw so far had the same hardware as the full size ones."

[AFF96]

Greg> Did the seller say it's a Deumer? Still not convinced it's bad but the new pics did not help at all.

My thoughts about it, from our mails.

"Core looks a lot like the Deumer Prinz but never seen that butt ugly hardware on any cross before."

"If beading matches the other Deumers it's ok i guess but Ask Trev what he thinks of the hardware, to me it looks completely wrong."

"All Pinback Deumer (4-5) i saw so far had the same hardware as the full size ones."

Hi Carl!
No he did not give the maker that came up by other means.
But I have decided to pass as I would not care to have a piece that is questionable at best! Patience is a virtue......right?
Thanks!!
Greg

[Roglebk]

Hi Carl!
No he did not give the maker that came up by other means.
But I have decided to pass as I would not care to have a piece that is questionable at best! Patience is a virtue......right?
Thanks!!
Greg

Totally agree! Never bought anything that gave me the creeps without being able to send it back!

For the "cross sake" it would be nice if Don and Andy could elaborate on why they think it's bad?

I base the bad feeling on the Hardware and the good feeling on the core and overall frame likeness and size to the Deumer Prinzen. Sadly the pics are totally useless so no bead comparising can be done.

[AFF96]

To my bad eyes & the lousy photos, the reverse set up doesn't look repaired/replaced? It almost looks like a Zimmermann set up????
Thanks!!
Greg

[Kraal]

To me it looks like a cheap, casted one piece production..

The material is, I assume, a very soft metal, due to the much "scars" and pressure points.. On the catch, the sides and the needle you can see scratches because it was stamped out.

The materials surface on the backside looks like beein casted. And then casted one piece cross was stampend out.

You can easily spot that its a one piece construction from the painting. Look at the pics, you can see it best on the 3 and 9 o clock arm what I mean. It goes - black core - bright line - black line - beading. This phenomene comes from too much paint in the angles, the photograph light comes in back in a different angle because its not flat. So it goes black core, bright line, black line, beading. Look here http://www.1944shop.com/index1.html you will spot this fact on every copy. The black line before the beading is brighter the more black colour is on the beading.

The crown and the W and the 1914 have the worst quality I have ever seen. Even KOs ugliest examples have a better quality. It comes from old casting forms.. From cheap detailed, old casting forms with rests of the older productions leaving holes in the following..

Hope you understand what I am trying to say, I often miss the correct englisch vocabulary to name the things I try to explain.


greetings
Andy

[Kraal]

2nd

Oh yeah. And this needle system only exists in a better quality on post 1945 products.

[streptile]

Hope you understand what I am trying to say, I often miss the correct englisch vocabulary to name the things I try to explain.

Hey Andy,

While I'm not sure I agree that it's a one-piece (could be, not sure), I just want to let you know that your English is excellent and you are perfectly well understood here.

[Kraal]

Hey Andy,

While I'm not sure I agree that it's a one-piece (could be, not sure), I just want to let you know that your English is excellent and you are perfectly well understood here.

Hey Trevor,

that´s just what I see from the pics. I`m glad you understand me- but I re-read my post now and spotted some major mistakes That happens if you re-write it again and again

Anyhow, you got my point.



greetings
Andy

[Roglebk]

Link to cross: http://screamneagle.com/product_info...roducts_id=492

Sellers description below, it's been on his site a long time.

"This is an extremely scare WWI German Iron Cross 1st Class in the very desirable “Prinzen” style that is in excellent condition. The cross measures 33mm from arm tip to arm tip and is of a highly vaulted construction. The black finish to the center is beautiful with the piece exhibiting beautiful detail to the silver bead running around the outer boarder of the obverse side. The reverse retains its original high quality nickel-silver pin assembly that is complete and fully functional. The cross is shown in relation to a full size 1914 Iron Cross 1st Class which is no included in this sale. For further information relating to the “Prinzen” size Iron Crosses, please see Steve Previtera's excellent work on the Iron Cross, The Iron Time, A History of the Iron Cross, pages 196-197. A choice example of a very scare 1914 Iron Cross 1st Class!"