Hauptman Delius @1912,or why sources...

[McCulloh]

....sometimes have mistakes.
Below is a photo of one Hauptmann Delius, killed in August, 1914.
The wise and noble Rick L. has found him and fleshed out his career, yet it was not as easy as one would imagine......even for him.
I shall post the photo and leave off for Rick to explain why this was thus...

[Brian S]

Is that the Hannover IR 77 on his shoulder?

[McCulloh]

"77"?

Yes it is. He was killed along with several other officers of his regt. on 8/22/1914. He had company #8.

[Brian S]

I'm still wondering what the punch line here is. I know there was more than one Delius. Also Prussian records, no first name. So I'm curious what mistypes occurred in which records Rick L went fishing in. Rankliste for 1912 seems right. I'm guessing the medalbar photo and the records don't add up?

[Christian L]

a really nice pic!
what clasps are on the medalbar?
the last medal?
christian

[Rick Research]

The key is in his awards:

What are they?

And bear in mind that freaky spectrum shift that alters colors.

[Rick Research]

The problem, of course, is Prussia's Rank Lists: in which Oberleutnant Delius shows ONE award.

Now "luckily" there is the Orders Almanac to fall back on, so no sweat. He's got FIVE awards and here he is...





Doncha HATE it when they screwed up in the past?

[Rick Research]

Yup. There he was in CHINA during the Boxer Rebellion (confirmed*), TWO battle bars AND the Austro-Hungarian "1873" general campaign medal (1848-1901)...

and he did not LIST either of his medals for China!

And THAT is why identifying groups is an Art and NOT a Science... because even PERIOD sources are incomplete or even worse, wrong.

*I assumed at first he was NOT him, from his Orders Almanac entry, but searching through both the official rank Lists for 1900, 1901, and 1902 and a period history which listed officers' regiments when assigned to "East Asian" units, found him in there.

Apparently he saved RM .20 not listing his other two significant awards... making hours of extra work 90 years after his death.

Notice that the weird "Dark Yellow" photographic process (compare with his 1897 and center of the China ribbon) has made the black "ladder" on his "1873" all but completely invisible(only the edge stripes of the "ladder" show at all) against the darkened yellow of the final ribbon.

[Brian S]

So are you saying battle bars usually show up in medals lists? China? Afrika? 1870?

[Rick Research]

NO: Prussian Rank Lists NEVER show campaign or jubilee awards at all... which is what makes doing Pruss-huns so maddeningly difficult. NO source lists individual battle bars for ANY of the medals which used them. Those can only be derived from histories or photographs.

Here is a sample from the 1914 Rank List again, Infantry Regiment 15-- the colonial Orders with Xs have been circled-- there is NO way to tell where or when they were awarded without searching every annual edition, and the Orders Almanac for those who paid to be listed there.

[Brian S]

Any knowledge how they got the battle bars? Just trusted to buy the right ones? Trying to remember the US general who was caught with combat awards on his ribbon bar which he had not earned. Very embarrassing.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Brian,

The participation in the battles were normally noted in the Wehrpass.

Best regards

Daniel