The biannual meeting of the "Holy Grail Club" 2010

[AlikN]

I don't really know if it's good or bad. However the more I look at it,
the more it reminds me of the soft details found on the fake "short 7"
style 1870s.

Did any of those fake "short 7" style 1870s have frames that are identical to the original 1870 frames?

Even if someone would cast an iron core(which I doubt), where would they get the dies for the frames, ...frames are die stamped not cast and from the big picture Greg posted, as much as I am able to see with a clarity of that picture - looks to me that the frames are identical, it has the same amount of beads in the marked area that is visible on Tony's cross and also the angle of beads is slightly tilted to the right, beading on the cross has other identifiable characteristics, but Tony's picture not close enough to see it.

[Roglebk]

Is yours painted Alik? Hard to tell from pics. Paint makes the details a lot weaker.

Greg> Is Tonys painted? Does not look like it.

[gregM]

Carl,
I can't tell if Tony's is painted or not---The pictures I posted are all I
have of it.

Alikn,
I was not trying to suggest that your cross was made by the same
person using the same frames as the fake 1870s. I was mearly pointing
out that the soft details might indicate a problem.

I don't know if this cross is good or bad. Considering the lack of responce
to this thread, I think most others don't know either and are afraid to voice
an opinion. I like the look of the frame. I like the fact that the core seems
to match the style of one belonging to one of our most well respected collectors.
I am put off by the soft details of that same core.

[streptile]

There is no doubt that your cross is the same as Tony's, Alik.

I think that Tony's is accepted as a good piece, Tony is an advanced collector with a discerning eye and a lot of experience, and thus I think you can be 100% happy with your cross.

[Montgomery Burns]

did anybody see if the frame is casted or pressed out an stamped silver frame ?











.

[streptile]

did anybody see if the frame is casted or pressed out an stamped silver frame ?

Maybe Alik himself can answer that?

[AlikN]

Frames are die stamped, l looked under a microscope and no evidence of casting, actually it would be very hard to cast anything that thin,
...does anyone have an example of a cast frame?
The core has some kind of black lacquer or paint and looks that it was done later maybe to refresh it, there is some gunk between core and frame and it has that black lacquer on it, and there is some more gunk and wear which is already on top of the lacquer, so I think the owner at some point in time had it done to make it look nicer.

[streptile]

Is the core ferrous (magnetic), Alik?

[AlikN]

Is the core ferrous (magnetic), Alik?

Yes.

[AlikN]

Here are the pictures of other six 1813 Prinzens from Carl's database.

[AlikN]

....

[Montgomery Burns]

Frames are die stamped, l looked under a microscope and no evidence of casting, actually it would be very hard to cast anything that thin,
...does anyone have an example of a cast frame?
The core has some kind of black lacquer or paint and looks that it was done later maybe to refresh it, there is some gunk between core and frame and it has that black lacquer on it, and there is some more gunk and wear which is already on top of the lacquer, so I think the owner at some point in time had it done to make it look nicer.

jewellers had the service off re plating the crosses ,,
my guess is they wood also re blacken the core to ,,

cording to Stephan Previtera's book 20 % off these crosses can be casted .
(page 30/31)

regards kay

[AlikN]

...
cording to Stephan Previtera's book 20 % off these crosses can be casted .
(page 30/31)

regards kay

Yes, but those were very early first frames, not two part construction thin frames and not in prinzen size.

...what I meant was - had anybody seen a fake of regular two part construction frame iron cross with cast in silver frames?

[AlikN]

Didn't get any 'welcome to the club' with my prinzen ...........,
How about this full size late 1830's+ ek-2.

[AlikN]

....