Gold Wound Badge II for Opinions

[streptile]

I am currently looking for two gold wound badges -- one award-type "mattgelb" painted example, and one nice "feuervergoldet" example ('cos I love the way they look), which I understand were probably private purchase/postwar.

The problem is, I've never examined a "feuervergoldet" example in-hand, so I'm not sure precisely what the finish should look like. If it's possible to judge from these photos, can I please have your opinions on this piece? I'm very happy to take additional photos or answer any questions.

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

[streptile]

Details of the same photos.

[Don D.]

Is the badge magnetic? I would not expect it to be. Also, the pin is on backwards.

[streptile]

Hi Don

Thanks for your reply. Yes, it is magnetic. Is that unknown for a real gilded piece?

I did notice the pin was on backwards.

Every part of this piece is gold or gilded, including, as far as I can see, the entire length of the hinge pin (that sits inside the hinge mechanism).

The finish is certainly not paint.

How does it look to you?

[Don D.]

I would have expected it to be a post war tombak piece to be fire gilded. It would have been a private purchase piece. The issue ones were painted gold with as my good friend Rick likes to say, radiator paint.

[juoneen]

Some hanky panky going on with this one at one time. Awful thin materials showing die stress cracks in spots. Im no WB expert, but are you sure this one is even good? (or possibly a first article where a material , or die ajustment was necessary)?

[streptile]

I would have expected it to be a post war tombak piece to be fire gilded.

Hi Don,

Thanks again for your comment. All I can say with any certainty about this piece is that it is not painted but rather treated in some way. Are there any tests for file-gilt, or anything I can look for specifically to determine if it is fire-gilt? I would like to get a consensus on this piece before my return period expires if at all possible. It's just my inexperience that keeps me from being able to judge it myself.

Im no WB expert.

Dear Juoneen,

I find almost everything you write to be ill-informed, rude, or wrong. As you are no expert by your own admission, please do not comment in this or any of my threads.

[Don D.]

Fire gilding has mercury in it. If you can find a test for that it would help.

The stress fractures are typical of steel badges.

[Brad Posey]

I do not know if fire gilding (amalgam gilding) works on ferrous metals (magnetic metal).

From what I know, alloys of copper: brass, bronze etc. and silver are more suitable for amalgam gilding.

The gilding here certainly looks like the way fire gilding is supposed to look, but the fractures are strange. As Don points out, fractures are common on steel badges.


Here is my non-magnetic fire gilded WB that I could still use additional opinions on since I personally have not seen another like it.


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=433656




Brad



.

[Ron P]

Fire gilding has mercury in it. If you can find a test for that it would help.

The stress fractures are typical of steel badges.

I also have seen stress fractures in steel wb's. I believe the style of the badge is of the common wartime variety which were steel. Is it possible it had a finish upgrade post WW1? Perhaps by the origional owner? Ron.

[Don D.]

True but then there is the pin mounted backwards.....

[Steve Campbell]

As for post war, weren't many of them post war as the award was only implemented in the last year of the war, 1918?

[Ron P]

True but then there is the pin mounted backwards.....

Hi Don. I've seen other German badges ( CCC's, U-Boot, to name two) which had reverse catches or backward pins. I'm speculating that mistakes were made during manufacture. Regards, Ron.

[Ron P]

As for post war, weren't many of them post war as the award was only implemented in the last year of the war, 1918?

True. I'm thinking that this particular helmet style was an early issue. Ron.

[streptile]

Hello guys,

Good to come home and read this robust discussion. Thank you all for your observations.

Brad, as far as I can tell, this badge has the same finish as yours in the other thread.

From what I know, alloys of copper: brass, bronze etc. and silver are more suitable for amalgam gilding.

That is good information. I wonder: was fire-gilding iron uncommon, or unknown?

Is fire-gilding something that is still commonly done?

The pin is indeed on backwards on this one, but I tend to agree with Ron:

I'm speculating that mistakes were made during manufacture.

It certainly shows no evidence of ever having been removed from the badge. I think with this hardened wire, it would show some bending, or tool marks, or something, if it had been removed and re-attached. As near as I can say, this pin was put on once and never removed. This also gives me some hope that the badge is a period (if post WWI) example. Also the entire thing is fire-gilt (as I said) -- even the hinge pin, visible from the side of the hinge and through the middle of the hinge, as I rotate the pin.

This badge leaves me with a good feeling overall. I will look into a test for fire-gilt finish.