20mm Mini, Order of the Red Eagle Grand Cross Star

[Roglebk]

Have shown this before but got better pics and it deserves a thread of it's own.

Made in 4 parts:

Star 20mm, die stamped/vaulted in what seems to be gilt Bronze. Only mark found is what i think is an "alignment mark" for attaching the hardware, it was probably a part of the die. Front of Star is filled with pyramide shaped "prismas" that gives a flashing effect.

Swords 17mm, die struck in gilt Bronze and soldered to the Star. The round center got a decorative line pattern, no idea why since it's covered by the Ring.

Ring with letters 9mm, struck in gilt Bronze and enamelled. Letters/Laurel are part of the ring and not inlays. Some of the letters lost its Gold. 2 soldered Brass pins on the back that goes into holes in the star.

Center Medallion 5.5mm, enamelled and hand painted. Sadly about half of the Gold paint is gone, in some places only traces remain. Seems to be glued to the Ring.

Hardware is made of 2 parts, a 2mm Brass tube that is soldered onto a base and then soldered to the back of the Star.

Believe it's supposed to be worn as a boutonnière but not sure. Might be missing a pin that will go into the tube on the back.

[Roglebk]

Took off the ring and medallion. Some enamel damage on top of the 2nd E. Gold gilt is gone on some of the letters.

[Roglebk]

Star without the Ring/Medallion. Now the line pattern on center of swords attachment can be seen.

In below pic, "Alignment mark" on the 9 'o clock Star ray.

[Roglebk]

Hardware, pretty nice soldering job.

[Roglebk]

Pyramide shaped prismas and Swords hilts.

Bottom pic shows the back of Ring/Medallion, stamped letters can be seen.

[Roglebk]

Been into Austrian awards lately and got lucky when borrowing pics from eMedals site.

This is a 'kleine dekoration' mini of a Grand Cross Star attached to the ribbon of a 'Order of Leopold Knight's Cross'. Look at the attachment method!

The Leopold GC Star mini is 20mm, just like the RAO GC Star.

Did Prussia have mini stars that was attached to ribbons too?

[streptile]

Hey Carl,

I really don't know anything about these minis, but I can say that I think yours looks great. As usual, the photos are great, too. One of the problems with these, of course, is that they are by definition unofficial, so there's not always something to compare it with.

Yours is lovely

[Roglebk]

One of the problems with these, of course, is that they are by definition unofficial, so there's not always something to compare it with.

Yours is lovely

Thanks Trev, so the Prussians did not use 'Kleine Dekorationen' like the Austrians did? In WWI it seems like the Austrians wore all higher grades of orders like a Knights grade (on the breast with a triangular ribbon) and therefore needed a way to separate the higher orders from the lower ones. Here's another 'KD', a 'commander star' on a Franz Josef Knights Cross with the same attachment method.

[Roglebk]

Another 2 KD's.

St Stephen Knights Cross with Grand Cross Star. (Left)

First Republic, Austrian Merit Order Knights Cross with Grand Cross Star.

[streptile]

so the Prussians did not use 'Kleine Dekorationen' like the Austrians did? In WWI it seems like the Austrians wore all higher grades of orders like a Knights grade (on the breast with a triangular ribbon) and therefore needed a way to separate the higher orders from the lower ones.

I really don't think so, since I've never seen it done that way with Prussian awards. It's interesting to see the Austrian tradition, though, since your little RAO star is obviously meant to attach the same way -- it's just missing a small backplate:

In WWI it seems like the Austrians wore all higher grades of orders like a Knights grade (on the breast with a triangular ribbon) and therefore needed a way to separate the higher orders from the lower ones. Here's another 'KD', a 'commander star' on a Franz Josef Knights Cross with the same attachment method.

I don't know much about Austrian decorations -- are you saying that each of the small mini stars you show attached to ribbons represent a higher grade of the same decoration as the ribbon it is on? For example, is the Leopold GC star shown below sitting on a ribbon for a lesser grade of the same order?



And if I understand you correctly, you are asking if your piece could have been worn (for example) like this, by someone who earned the RAO4 -- RAO Star, right?

I hope Mike Estelmann or Sascha will offer some guidance, or someone. It would be interesting to know.

[streptile]

I wonder if one possibility is that an Austrian recipient could have done it, even if it was not common (or permitted) in Prussia?

The attachment device is identical to the Austrian minis, that's for sure.

[CSForrester]

In Prussia Kleindekoration were allowed for some combinations in wear beside other decorations in original size. I will look for the Allerhoechste Kabinettsorder introducing this kind of decorations in Prussia.
I think, only the RAO 1st, KO 1st and SAO could be worn as a Kleindekoration.
They are very rare and only a few pictures are known with a Kleindekoration in wear. I think your RAO-Grandcross star is austrian made and was worn by an autrisan recipient - you have to add an enamled 3rd class
I once had a nice picture of Liman von Sanders, wearing the Kronen-Orden 1st class as a Kleindekoration beside his RAO 2nd class with crown and oaks.

Regards
Markus

[CSForrester]

...and Kaiser Wilhelm II, wearing a Kleindekoration of the SAO over the Hohenzollern-breaststar.

[RAO]

In Prussia Kleindekoration were allowed for some combinations in wear beside other decorations in original size. I will look for the Allerhoechste Kabinettsorder introducing this kind of decorations in Prussia.
I think, only the RAO 1st, KO 1st and SAO could be worn as a Kleindekoration.

Thats right and the RAO GK and the Verdienstorden der preußischen Krone could be worn as. Maybe also the HOH GK, but I dont no that.

Greetings Mike

[Roglebk]

I really don't think so, since I've never seen it done that way with Prussian awards. It's interesting to see the Austrian tradition, though, since your little RAO star is obviously meant to attach the same way -- it's just missing a small backplate:

Never saw it either. Been trying to get some answers from the seller since he listed it as a 'Kleine Dekoration' but no luck so far. It sure looks to match the Austrian attachment method.


don't know much about Austrian decorations -- are you saying that each of the small mini stars you show attached to ribbons represent a higher grade of the same decoration as the ribbon it is on? For example, is the Leopold GC star shown below sitting on a ribbon for a lesser grade of the same order?

Yup, all 'Kleine Dekorationen' was attached to a Knights Cross (or similar 'breast worn award' ribbon). If the awardee got a Grand Cross he attached the Grand Cross Star to the Knights Cross ribbon and if he got the Commander Cross he attached the Commander Star to the KC ribbon.


And if I understand you correctly, you are asking if your piece could have been worn (for example) like this, by someone who earned the RAO4 -- RAO Star, right?

Not quite, the awardee would not necessarily have been awarded any of the RAO2-4.

Not sure if you got a KC together with your Grand Cross, GC Star and 'Kleine Dekoration' GC Star in Austria. Otherwise you had to buy a KC on your own to be able to wear your GC.

Believe it had to be worn on at least a RAO3, which is a breast badge and equivalent to the Austrian KC's.