EK2 award docs and photos lot - help please

[EK Hunter]

I just received this interesting grouping today. While the lot does not include an actual EK2, it did include a very nice EK lapel button with amazing detail for its tiny size.

I'd like to request assistance with the hand written portions of the EK2 certificate and, if time permits, with the letter written on the back of one of the photos. Also, does anyone know the correct translation for the title: "Schreinermeister"?

It's my understanding that the awards recipient, Johann Uhlhass, is actually the soldier who appears on the right and far right in the two photos.

Any comments and opinions would also be welcome. Thanks.

Best, Alex

[MauserKar98k]

Also, does anyone know the correct translation for the title: "Schreinermeister"?

If Google translate is to be believed, "Schreinermeister" means Master Carpenter.

The 17th Landwehr Regiment was recruited in Lorraine and was part of the 85th Landwehr Division (as the document confirms.) They fought from 1915-1918 on the Eastern Front. The 17th Landwehr Regiment initially fought in on the Western Front (1914), but there were so many desertions that the regiment was sent to Russia. In 1917, the 85th Division was noted as having "remained a long while in quiet sectors on the Russian front. The 85th Landwehr Division had but a very mediocre combat value." In 1918, the 85th Division participated in operations in Courtland and the Ukraine and was rated as a Fourth-Class division.

Very nice grouping!

[EK Hunter]

If Google translate is to be believed, "Schreinermeister" means Master Carpenter.

The 17th Landwehr Regiment was recruited in Lorraine and was part of the 85th Landwehr Division (as the document confirms.) They fought from 1915-1918 on the Eastern Front. The 17th Landwehr Regiment initially fought in on the Western Front (1914), but there were so many desertions that the regiment was sent to Russia. In 1917, the 85th Division was noted as having "remained a long while in quiet sectors on the Russian front. The 85th Landwehr Division had but a very mediocre combat value." In 1918, the 85th Division participated in operations in Courtland and the Ukraine and was rated as a Fourth-Class division.

Very nice grouping!

Thanks for your informative reply.

Best,

Alex

[MauserKar98k]

Thanks for your informative reply.

Best,

Alex

No problem. Hopefully someone chimes in and translates what is on the back of the postcard (the studio portrait was taken in Bitche, Lorraine BTW); I have trouble deciphering cursive German, let alone this which borders on Sütterlin.

[Chip M]

The Schrift on the EK document is,

"Sergt. Ulhaas Johann, 1.Masch.Gew.Komp., Ldw.I.Regt.17., 31.Mai, 1918
Regiments Stabsquartier den 8.Juni 1918, ?.A.z.R.K., Vogel Major."

I can't read all of the note, but in the middle it says something about being wounded in the foot and spending 5 1/2 long months in the hospital. I am sure some of our German friends can do a more complete job.

Notice his last name is spelled differently on the two documents.

Chip

[speedytop]

Hi,

Hiermit ein Bildchen als Infanterist
nebst meinem Kameraden
Knabben mit dem eisernen
Kreuz. Der war schon mal feste
verwundet am Fuße. Hat 5 1/2
Monate im Lazarett gelegen.
Als Kavallerist ist doch schöner.
Aber schlank bin ich jetzt wie
eine Tanne. Wer hätte das
mal gedacht? Fühle mich ganz
wohl dabei. Nun aber geht
es ins Bett, morgen früh muß
ich 7 Uhr schon weiter. Auf dem
...hell und klar. .....


It is for me difficult to decide, who is who?
There are two persons on both pictures, always left and right.
Who is U[h]lhaas?

Based on the first sentence it could be the Iron Cross for Uhlhaas or for Knappen.

Based on the button mini, it must be Uhlhaas with the Iron Cross, because there is no medal ribbon, as you can see the medal on the breast of the other man.

And, again based on the button mini, he could have both Iron Crosses, because you can see two IC ribbons.

Uwe

[EK Hunter]

The Schrift on the EK document is,

"Sergt. Ulhaas Johann, 1.Masch.Gew.Komp., Ldw.I.Regt.17., 31.Mai, 1918
Regiments Stabsquartier den 8.Juni 1918, ?.A.z.R.K., Vogel Major."

I can't read all of the note, but in the middle it says something about being wounded in the foot and spending 5 1/2 long months in the hospital. I am sure some of our German friends can do a more complete job.

Notice his last name is spelled differently on the two documents.

Chip

Thanks for your input, Chip. Yes, I see the last name is spelled differently on each document. Now I wonder which one has the correct spelling?

Best,

Alex

[EK Hunter]

Hi,

Hiermit ein Bildchen als Infanterist
nebst meinem Kameraden
Knabben mit dem eisernen
Kreuz. Der war schon mal feste
verwundet am Fuße. Hat 5 1/2
Monate im Lazarett gelegen.
Als Kavallerist ist doch schöner.
Aber schlank bin ich jetzt wie
eine Tanne. Wer hätte das
mal gedacht? Fühle mich ganz
wohl dabei. Nun aber geht
es ins Bett, morgen früh muß
ich 7 Uhr schon weiter. Auf dem
...hell und klar. .....


It is for me difficult to decide, who is who?
There are two persons on both pictures, always left and right.
Who is U[h]lhaas?

Based on the first sentence it could be the Iron Cross for Uhlhaas or for Knappen.

Based on the button mini, it must be Uhlhaas with the Iron Cross, because there is no medal ribbon, as you can see the medal on the breast of the other man.

And, again based on the button mini, he could have both Iron Crosses, because you can see two IC ribbons.

Uwe

Thank you very much for transcribing the note, Uwe. This will make it much easier to have it translated.

My understanding is that Ulhaas is the soldier on the right (wearing the EK2) in both photos.

The note was written on the back of the photo of the two soldiers standing alone outdoors. Based on your transcription and my understanding of the German, it sounds like the note was not written by Ulhaas, but by the other soldier in the photo instead.

It's interesting that the lapel button has 'two EK2 ribbons'. Does this mean Ulhaas was awarded the EK2 twice? I also see a small ribbon with a red stripe binding the two EK2 ribbons together on the lapel button. Is this ribbon for the 1914/1918 Honor Cross for Combatants?

Best,

Alex

[Gerdan]

Left photo:
Exactly:

The writer (left on the photo without EK) and his comrade the soldier named Knabben with the EK, right side of the photo.

Ulhaas was awardes the EK 31 May 1918 but this photo should have been taken earlier without his EK - only his friend Knabben has the EK. So he writes on the back of the postcard.

This is my interpretation.

Gerdan

[EK Hunter]

Left photo:
Exactly:

The writer (left on the photo without EK) and his comrade the soldier named Knabben with the EK, right side of the photo.

Ulhaas was awardes the EK 31 May 1918 but this photo should have been taken earlier without his EK - only his friend Knabben has the EK. So he writes on the back of the postcard.

This is my interpretation.

Gerdan

Thanks for your input, Gerdan. So if I understand correctly, you believe that Ulhaas is the soldier on the left in the photo?

Also, can anyone else chime in regarding the composition of the lapel button? Is it common to have three ribbons on one button, in this case two EK2 ribbons and one for the 1914-1918 Honor Cross for combatants? And does this mean the recipient was awarded the EK2 twice?

Best,

Alex

[speedytop]

Hi Alex,

"does this mean the recipient was awarded the EK2 twice?"

No, never.

It could (but it must not) be EK2, EK1 and Honor Cross.

Uwe