Yet another 1914 EK 1 to ID

[George Stimson]

Okay, guys, what about this one?

[Mike Kenny]

Looks like an AWS with "weak" core details.

Regards
Mike

[streptile]

The core is a typical AWS type, but I think we need to see the pin, IMO.

The beveled edges gave me pause, but it doesn't match the R-3 beveled.

[streptile]

...and measurements?

[George Stimson]

The pin? And measurements?

[streptile]

That is an very nice set, but I personally can't fix a maker to it. I don't recognize the frame as one that AWS used, but I could be wrong. As Mike said, the core is a typical AWS core -- a poor strike, but a known type. Also, I think other makers used this core, right?

Still a mystery to me.

[Mike Kenny]

As far as I know, this core is unique to AWS.

Seeing the weak detail on the core would fit with it being a much later strike (?worn dies).

George, out of curiosity, is that first pattern spange integral with the cross frames or applied separately with extreme skill?

Regards
Mike

[streptile]

The core was at a minimum also used by Juncker in WWII-made EKs (some marked L/12, with Juncker frames), both EK1s and EK2s:



The reverse core die (seen above) was also sometimes paired with this obverse core die:



...and a photo may be seen on p. 72 of Geißler's Iron Cross book that shows the typical AWS/Juncker 1870 EK2 obverse core again with the reverse Juncker-style core shown above.

In short, I think the core shown in George's cross has an equal chance of being Juncker, although (because there exist no known Juncker-marked WWI-era EKs) their 1914-era frames are a deep, abiding mystery to me -- I mean, what frames exactly did they use (besides the "Wideframe")?

I further believe that Spange to be a 1. Form Juncker (from the reverse), so that may tell us something...

[George Stimson]

Mike

I don't have the combo in hand, but when I blow up the scan it seems to me that the Spange was separate and applied with skill. As I recall, there was a one-piece backplate. I'll be seeing it again in a few weeks, so I can get all the info you want.

[streptile]

I further believe that Spange to be a 1. Form Juncker (from the reverse), so that may tell us something...

Can you just say if this is true? I understand you don't want to show the whole thing...

[George Stimson]

I don't mind showing the whole thing. It is an early Juncker Spange.

[streptile]

IMO, until further evidence surfaces, a through-and-through Juncker combo.

[streptile]

Here's a Juncker:

[streptile]

Marked L/12:

[Motorhead]

I'm with Mike here-this is one of the AWS Cores! I know that these crosses can be found also with the "L/12" on the back-but I think Juncker has taken over the left over AWS stocks. Why? Because I've seen a lot of AWS screwbacks with removed hallmark at the screw.....I've no idea about the clasp,but if the experts are sure that it's a typical Juncker that would match.....my two cents(Euro)
Micha