1914 EKI Prinzen, how to almost ruin a good cross

[gregM]

Carl,
The first thing I notice in your last post is the difference in the crowns.
The fullsized cross has a jewelled style while the prizen has a "dot" style crown.

I don't know if that means anything -- just something I noticed.

[Roglebk]

Carl,
The first thing I notice in your last post is the difference in the crowns.
The fullsized cross has a jewelled style while the prizen has a "dot" style crown.

I don't know if that means anything -- just something I noticed.

True, there are some minor differencies like the diamond shaped jewels vs. the round shaped ones. Overall cross shape does not match either. Most interesting part is the hardware imo.

[streptile]

Carl, what an amazing observation.

It is my belief that these awards that we collect -- including cores, frames and Spangen -- were made with a pantograph, a device that allows movement to be duplicated on a different scale. Most often used with line drawings by means of a scaled parallelogram, it can also be used for 3-D objects like dies. A full-size scale model is made, sculpted really, from some material, even wood. It can be any size. Then, a negative impression is formed in some material. The contours of this can be traced with a pantograph, on the other end of which is metal-carving bit or blade that cuts a new, smaller impression into soft metal. That metal can then be hardened into a die. By changing the size of the parallelogram, you can change the size of the target impression without altering the original model. The benefits are:

a) the same design can be replicated, making multiple core or frame dies,

b) the same design can be replicated in different sizes. Witness the similarity between a stickpin Spange and its fullsize version by the same maker. How else do you account for that consistency except by a pantograph?

I think these cores show enough similarities that a pantograph may have been used to make them both from the same original. The similarity of reverse hardware is another bit of supporting evidence to suggest that these came from the same shop.

Well spotted, Carl.

[Ammersee]

Trevor, you've never been to an engraving shop in Europe, have you? Using a machine to engrave would get you thrown out on your ear. I attended the engraving school at the Bottega di Giovanelli in Gardone, V.T. Italy and was taught by engravers whose skill would blow your mind. Cutting a Prinzen die to match a full size die by hand would be a piece of cake.

Show me a pic of a worker in an Iron Cross factory using a pantograph and I will be a believer. Ammersee

[lohengrin]

PLM Officer...

..

[Roglebk]

Carl, what an amazing observation.

It is my belief that these awards that we collect -- including cores, frames and Spangen -- were made with a pantograph, a device that allows movement to be duplicated on a different scale. Most often used with line drawings by means of a scaled parallelogram, it can also be used for 3-D objects like dies. A full-size scale model is made, sculpted really, from some material, even wood. It can be any size. Then, a negative impression is formed in some material. The contours of this can be traced with a pantograph, on the other end of which is metal-carving bit or blade that cuts a new, smaller impression into soft metal. That metal can then be hardened into a die. By changing the size of the parallelogram, you can change the size of the target impression without altering the original model. The benefits are:

a) the same design can be replicated, making multiple core or frame dies,

b) the same design can be replicated in different sizes. Witness the similarity between a stickpin Spange and its fullsize version by the same maker. How else do you account for that consistency except by a pantograph?

I think these cores show enough similarities that a pantograph may have been used to make them both from the same original. The similarity of reverse hardware is another bit of supporting evidence to suggest that these came from the same shop.

Well spotted, Carl.

It was you who did the spottig Trev!

The Pantograph theory is very interesting, read about it before, do not know what to believe really. There is so much research left to do, makes me all warm and fuzzy inside, hehe.

Should have put AWS/Juncker in the headline and not just Juncker. Wonder if AWS got forced out of business by the nazis and Juncker took over their entire inventory like some believe. It sure makes sense to me, when finding AWS crosses with removed mm's and all those earlier ones with AWS marks and then the "Schinkel Wideframes" that got Juncker written all over them...

[Don D.]

When did AWS go out of business?

[streptile]

when did aws go out of business?

1941.

Trevor, you've never been to an engraving shop in Europe, have you? Using a machine to engrave would get you thrown out on your ear.

No, I haven't ...and I may be dead wrong, but it's just a theory that seems to make a lot sense to me without consideration of the traditions and practices of European engravers (in other words, based solely on what I've noticed on the pieces themselves). Also, I didn't mean an automated pantograph machine, so much, as something like this (obviously more sophisticated):

[Don D.]

Thanks. I wonder why they went out of business? I wonder why we don't see any catalogs from them?

[streptile]

Thanks. I wonder why they went out of business? I wonder why we don't see any catalogs from them?

Hi Don. Check out the last post HERE.