1870 EK2 - what type?

[saschaw]

I've never seen it, and only heard about it in THIS thread recently.

Et voilà:


You're pretty right we're missing a 100% proof. However, I would not touch one of these. They do not look what I would expect, neither award era not jubilee or later... I have never seen one in an authentic group - but this very one here. The bar looks absolutely good and I really like it. Are you sure the EK cannot have been swiched?

It's to a Baden doctor who was awarded for bravery "under-fire". It is interesting that he dressed it up with a centennial medal but no oaks. I guess he never bothered to buy them.

I hope I recall it correctly... any military doctor in France would have been awarded a bronze 1870/71 medal, so this guy - if a doctor - must have been a volunteer civil doctor.

Nice and rare combination! If you get tired of it...

[Brian S]

Hi Brian,
this type is called the "Bad Crown" fake


Greg

Honestly hadn't heard that

[VtwinVince]

The Baden bar does look good, but the folding of the ribbon on the lower back of the EK is not consistent with the other awards.

[Brian R]

I don't want to be "that guy" and refuse to acknowledge my piece is fake although the consensus is against it. Honestly, I don't think my EK is the same as the EKs from DN in posts 14 and 16. Although the details are similar, the finish is not the same to me. Perhaps these fakes were modeled after this style.

If this bar was a single and not hanging on a bar, I'd be MUCH more inclined to believe that it is no good. However, I know more about medal bars than I do about EKs and die characteristics and there is no why this cross was swapped. It was sewn on to this bar a VERY long time ago.

Trevor, this might be the time to schedule a trip to Brooklyn!!

[Brian S]

Hi Mike

We both know that unless it is made from plastic, then providing firm reasons is not possible, given that they are made from the 'correct' materials, they have the 'right' characteristics, etc...

Even for the '9th bead fake', that is not possible. It's simply a case of the weight of consensus and whether that carries any sway with the individual owner of these EK2's.

For me (and you know I owned one of these EK2's and treasured it like you do) the emergence of a 1st class version with the spurious and obviously false 'GODET BERLIN' marking was the deal breaker. Picture is below.

I'm sorry, but IMO there is far more against this type of cross than there is for it.

Cheers

Marshall

Marshall is absolutely correct. The EKI clenches the deal that the EKI is total garbage.

However, are the two EKII's really fake? Or, were they the originals?

As was said above, the lack of symmetry is lacking but Mike Kenny's with the hump just plain looks made right... I stand unconvinced the two presented are fakes, yet. All the others in the fake pictures are fake, they don't work... But I'm on the fence on the two shown...

But those are real nasty crowns. And crosses can be aged.

Also, Brian, your bar's ribbon on the right of the EKII has certainly been hacked at... Makes me think someone took off the EKII and maybe a fake put on the bar.

What do you mean it's "sewn" onto the bar. ?

[Brian R]

Marshall is absolutely correct. The EKI clenches the deal that the EKI is total garbage.

However, are the two EKII's really fake? Or, were they the originals?

As was said above, the lack of symmetry is lacking but Mike Kenny's with the hump just plain looks made right... I stand unconvinced the two presented are fakes, yet. All the others in the fake pictures are fake, they don't work... But I'm on the fence on the two shown...

But those are real nasty crowns. And crosses can be aged.

Also, Brian, your bar's ribbon on the right of the EKII has certainly been hacked at... Makes me think someone took off the EKII and maybe a fake put on the bar.

What do you mean it's "sewn" onto the bar. ?

Brian - Honestly, the frayed ribbon to the right is unrelated - I think it's just coincidental wear. The sewn comment is this... the medals are all sewn to the "plate" in a consistent fashion. The EK ring was sewn on when the bar was constructed and before the ribbons were wrapped around it.

[Don D.]

The cores look very simular but all the frames look different.... Perhaps fake cores inserted into 1914 frames???????

[streptile]

Trevor, this might be the time to schedule a trip to Brooklyn!!

Yeah, man. I'm very curious to see this one.

[Brian R]

After years of doubt despite the nudging of this community, I am convinced these EKs are almost definitely reproductions. It was the questions posed by Michel in this thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=702212

that really put in the nail of my coffin of doubt. I would love to learn some day that they are some kind of variant but, until then, the evidence is stacked high against them.

Thanks to you all!!

Brian

[ferry68]

Hi,
I'm not a specialist, I had exactly the same 2nd class cross a couple years ago, with a "new" ribbon and a fake jubilaumsspange. If i remember good, the cross was 20g or 21g that's heavy for a 1870 cross.
Showing your spange I have a question. Why a EK comb ribbon? the 1895 service medal his in steel with non comb ribbon.
Can someone explain to me?
Regards gents,

[Montgomery Burns]

WY dos the ek have to be original ha ? because the bar looking so period ?

the dealers who put a spange together are no idiots


they know by now
the ageing has to be equal to other medals on the bar ..

they know stitching have to be similar on every position ..

they know a old rotten bars will bring doubts and questions up that some convince to buy.

this bar only shows how good the fakers are ..OR !

or was it just a collector selling the original and replacing it with a repro ?

or a elderly guy needing money ?

WY dos the ek have to be original ha ? because of the bar looking so period ?

just use the criteria of an original on this Iron cross and it fails every time to be convincing...

your missing the period picture of an veteran wearing it .






regards kay

[FIN89]

Hello everybody!

Can you tell me something about my latest purchase?
I'm not the expert on german imperial era crosses.


Here you find some better photos:
Front, Front 2
Date, Bottom edge, Top
Date (back), Crown (back)
I'm sorry these are the best photos I can give you at the moment...
Ask me for any closer photos.

I bought this cross for a lot of money, so I would like to hear it's genuine.

Thanks in advance!
- Vili

[morel5000]

Hi Fin,

welcome to the forum!
From that angle it looks like a good one. However I would suggest you open a new thread, make a straight on front and back shot!

Best regards,
Michel

[Miro O]

Not the nicest, but surely good A-type cross, IMO.

Miro