1914 Iron cross

[Rotto]

I've seen 1914 Iron crosses advertized for sale that were
manufactured during the third reich. Could some one tell me why the third reich was manufacturing 1914 crosses? All I can asume is they were for replacements. Also is there some noticaable difference that one can tell whether a cross was made in during the first war or the second.
Thanks
Randy

[Bill M]

--Welcome, Randy. Yes, the 1914's were produced well after the first war for vet replacements, usually you cannot tell the difference as the original frames were still being used.
-- Iron crosses, when comparing 1813, 1870 and 1914 versions have the same basic shape. Hitler changed that, redesigning a slightly bigger, thicker cross. Many of the 1914 crosses produced during WWII had the thicker, stockier frames of the 1939 cross.
--In comparison between the `14's and `39's you will notice that the `14's have more of a curve to the arms from center to tip. A more graceful flange than the 1939 EK's. Side by side, you can't miss the difference.

[Rick Research]

"1914" Iron Crosses made after September 1939 usually will have the larger WW2 size frame. These are usually FIRST Class crosses, since those got the wear and tear of everyday use, while a 2nd Class was only worn in full dress.

There are a lot of unmarked 1914 EK1s, but any WW2 replacement I've seen has had the Third Reich maker's mark on it.

[Rotto]

1914 cross

Thanks guys.
I'm kind of wondering about a 1914 EK1 I bought from a Canadian collector. The size is definately larger than a 1914 EK2 I've got. plus the crown, W, and date is much more pronounced. I've only just started this hobby and don't have the reference material to be able to compare to anything else. There are no marks on the 1st class, but the catch pin is missing. As well the W in the middle seems to be slightly off center. Where generally would the makers marks be located on a Third Reich manufactured 1914 EK1?
Thanks
Randy

[Eric Stahlhut]

Wait!

If you could post a picture of the EK1 in question it would help quite a bit. I have to add that some EK1s made during the Third Reich period after 1939 were in fact unmarked. Early ones were, just like the 1939 versions.

Can you give us the exact dimensions of the cross?

eric

[Rotto]

1914 Iron cross

Sorry for the delay fellas, I kind of got side tracked for a couple of days.
Anyways I'm not sure which dimensions you would need so I measured everthing. Top to bottom 1.742 inches, side to side 1.732 inches, and the four arms average 1.41 inches. Also the weight is 17.36 grams but as I mentioned the pin is broken off.
I've got a couple of pics scanned but I'm not ready to figure out your picture attachment system yet.

Thanks for any help
Randy

[PaulChep]

Keep and eye on Detlev Niemann's website. When he sells a 1914 EK that was made during the Third Reich he identifies it as such. The pictures will show the pin differences.

[Doug See]

I've seen the larger 1914 EK1's made during the Third Reich, but I don't remember seeing any 1914 EK2's that were of the larger style. I guess that points to the theory that 1914 EK2's were made 1939-45, but made from the same frames or dies. Why would the makers keep 2 different stocks of EK2 frames (1939 and 1914), yet mainly use 1939 frames for 1914 EK1's of that period?