1813 EKs - ...question.

[VtwinVince]

Did anyone bother to save the images of that 1870 GC sash that went on German ebay last summer? I bid on it, albeit unsuccessfully.

[Montgomery Burns]

Kai, which Kaiser did award EKs in 1813? Napoleon?!



The EKs of 1813, 1870 and 1914 are not orders ("Orden"), but decorations ("Ehrenzeichen"). I do not think there is any doubt in this known fact. The EK was not an order until Hitler introduced his EK in 1939.

sorry,,, king ,, indeed a important difference


to long ours this week ,,to much off a hurry to .










.

[Montgomery Burns]

Kai, which Kaiser did award EKs in 1813? Napoleon?!



The EKs of 1813, 1870 and 1914 are not orders ("Orden"), but decorations ("Ehrenzeichen"). I do not think there is any doubt in this known fact. The EK was not an order until Hitler introduced his EK in 1939.

maybe you should read fore yourself in this case
,,

[streptile]

An interesting excerpt. If I'm reading that crazy alphabet properly, it says, "Ersteres würde das kreuz als einen Orden, letzteres als ein Ehrenzeichen kennzeichnen... und so ist es auch bis heute geblieben." So there was confusion, and this text seems to confirm it, even if it carefully reproduces the King's opinion. Am I misreading?

[Montgomery Burns]

its very difficult to translate in English 100% correct trevor ..


the question was ,,



wood the owner off an ek be a knight,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or in second case,,,, a holder off

in first case it wood be a Orden ( knight off the order off) in second a ehrenzeichen ( token off honour ).

but i have some Moore off it on paper ,, its a fine thread fore it .


.



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[saschaw]

Kai, I know this text well, but it states the king did not want to decide in this question.

[Montgomery Burns]

no ,,,,he did himself call it orden several time's ,,therefore he wood leave the matter to rest...

that is what its says ,,,

but the matter is to ridicules to go on with it ,,,,,or make a point about it ...

everyone should read fore themselves and make up there own mind ,,,

i am leaving it at this point to what it is













.

[saschaw]

"dass er in dieser Hinsicht nichts festsetzen (...) wolle."

[Don D.]

Elmer, thank you for the update on the Thies piece. Did you get it? It is so lovely to look at.

Brian, you raise some interesting points. However, I am inclined to trust an 1813 EK2 that
matches details and construction techniques found in Heyde's book, as he shows a good
selection of 3-piece construction EK2s made in the period.

It is certainly possible to question anything, but I believe the fakers have made their best
efforts, and fallen short in a few key areas. This is, in my opinion, their best so far:



...and it's pretty damn good. But doesn't pass as a real one. So I personally believe it is
still possible to judge an original 3-piece. What I do not know about are the
very early anomalies, like the Weitze piece shown above, and some of the notch-frame
examples in the first post. How can I possibly know if something "one-of-a-kind" was
made in 1815 or 2005?



Finally, a note about manufacture. As I understand it, the cores were cast in "casting trees,"
which had multiple molds that were filled at the same time. Thus there will be slight
variations from one mold to the next. I don't know how many molds sat side-by-side
(I'm not sure it is known by anyone), but this method probably explains the co-existence
of serif and sans-serif dates on original, early examples. An example of this kind of casting
tree can be seen in Vern Bowen's book (hardcover edition) on p. 28.

One of these fakes is currently listed on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/1813-Iron-Cross-...item23103c8f2b

[gregM]

I've been watching this one and some of his other offerings.

[Montgomery Burns]

I've been watching this one and some of his other offerings.

me to

looking to be a serious guy ,,,,,,,



























.

[saschaw]

Isn't he a member here?

[streptile]

Isn't he a member here?

...was a member.

Expelled, as I understand it, for knowingly selling fakes on eBay after having them uncovered on the eStand.

[VtwinVince]

Yup, a fraudster with a collection of good and crap items

[saschaw]

Good to know, thanks!