EK 1 1870 Wagner & S. today at Niemann update

[Montgomery Burns]

OOOOOOOOOHHHHH,,,,,now I understand

but that's ok

communication, in only writing,always misses a big part off indications to know how things are wryly meant actually



thank you fore being so friendly...

it was well meant from my part ,,

regards kay

[FrankS]

In my opinion the ones with the thin needle are the early award types. In the Heyde book showing the Aurich collection only the type with the thin needle is shown.

In other threads the type with the wider needle is shown and generally accepted as original Wagner & Söhne Iron Crosses.

Maybe Wagner changed to the wider needle because the thin one was too fragile/flimsy.
I think it will be impossible to determine if and when such a change was done.

[VtwinVince]

Frank, I agree with you about relative rarity, but 7K+USD is a lot of money for this. I have some items in my collection which are extremely rare, and not worth much. Desirability drives the market. If that is a period case, and a period award, perhaps.

[streptile]

In my opinion the ones with the thin needle are the early award types. Maybe Wagner changed to the wider needle because the thin one was too fragile/flimsy.

Totally agree

Also supporting this hypothesis is the fact that many of the thin-needle type pins exhibit period repairs, indicating that they were indeed too flimsy.

Frank, can you say what type of pin yours has?

[FrankS]

...

Frank, can you say what type of pin yours has?

no problem:

[FrankS]

Frank, I agree with you about relative rarity, but 7K+USD is a lot of money for this. I have some items in my collection which are extremely rare, and not worth much. Desirability drives the market. If that is a period case, and a period award, perhaps.

Vince,

I totally agree that desirability determines the price and not the rarity. But the desirability for the Wagner & Söhne 1870 EK 1 is there, otherwise it wouldn't have sold so quick.
I was already offered more money than the Niemann selling price for my Wagner & Söhne EK 1 (without a case). If the case from the Niemann EK 1 is of 1870 period I don't know.

[streptile]

Vince, I totally agree that desirability determines the price and not the rarity. But the desirability for the Wagner & Söhne 1870 EK 1 is there, otherwise it wouldn't have sold so quick.

I think the prices of these is very reasonable considering their rarity. Dealers and private sellers still get $15K+ for a plain old cased RK, which are more common that an 1870 EK2. Go figure.

[Steve P]

Nice Collection Frank!

[Biro]

I have no issue with this type of pin on a Wagner.

As long as they are correctly marked as per Detlevs offering, then they are a genuine example of a rare Wagner and worth every penny.

I think it is totally feasable that either the thin pins were deemed to unreliable or that the fatter pin are of slightly later production.

Both are relevant and both highly desirable.



Marshall

[Don D.]

The only thing that makes it uber expensive is the current exchange rate.

[Andy K.]

EK 1 1870 Wagner & S. today at Niemann update

The EK case is in my opinion definitely not a case for an EK I 1870. It is one of the many variants of EK I 1914 cases. The former owner put the genuine Wagner EK I 1870 in that case.
Two genuine and contemporary EK I 1870 cases can be seen in the following thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=385010

From my point of view the genuine Wagner EK I 1870 has been sold to a very reasonable price. A genuine Wagner EK I 1870 is very rare and costs least 5.000 Euro. The last genuine Wagner EK I 1870 (without a case) was sold from Detlev Niemann for 5.000 Euro on January 30th 2009.

Andy

[Brian S]

Price with original case seems reasonable, sort of... But with that case, sorry, no way.

[gregM]

I think they are WAY over priced. Maybe that's because I really want one and can not afford one. Of coarse if they only cost $500 then everyone would have one.

[Montgomery Burns]

I was hoping that the crisis wood help to get the price down fore such items

but it only helps to make rare items even more expensive

only the regular stuff go's down with price in a crisis .

[Montgomery Burns]

,this is interesting

also the pin system

http://cgi.ebay.de/Eisernes-Kreuz-1-...ria?hash=item4

1900/ 1910 jewellers ek