One piece EK2

[AUSGANG]

I collect 1939 Iron crosses but will pick up the odd Imperial EK if the price is right. I got this for ten dollars and I'm curious as to if it is authentic or not. It is one piece, non magnetic and has a "brassy" sheen to it where the silverplate has worn off. It is not made of a soft metal and does not leave a line when dragged on a piece of paper. I know that there is a massive variety of Imperial EK makers and would appreciate any help with this one. Thanks, Ausgang

[AUSGANG]

reverse

[AUSGANG]

OK, no comments but thanks to those who looked. I seem to remember reading that Imperial one piece EK2s were produced late in the war, which makes some sense since I have a couple of early one piece 1939 EK2s that are in the same Schickle form.

[saschaw]

I cannot comment on this piece, but I'm pretty sure there were no one piece EKs made in late-WW1. All those strange crosses are rahter from the inter-war or even early WW2 era.

[AUSGANG]

Thanks Saschaw!

[Roglebk]

OK, no comments but thanks to those who looked. I seem to remember reading that Imperial one piece EK2s were produced late in the war, which makes some sense since I have a couple of early one piece 1939 EK2s that are in the same Schickle form.

Just a thought Ausgang, Schickle is a maker of crosses, the shape you're refering too is Schinkel. This one do not have the quality of the 1939 one piece Schinkel imo.

[regular122]

I am not certain, but I do believe there were some bronze single piece pieces made late in the war. Perhaps Stephen would know, although Saschaw is certainly knowledgeable.

I think your cross to be authentic for certain. It is definitely worth $10. Whether it is medal bar filler for 1930s vets or not, it is still a very good buy.

While most would be the 1930s spangestueck, below is an example of what I believe is late war, that is quite rare and is a single piece construction. Both obverse and reverse are shown. Whether post war or not, WWI era single piece crosses are still an oddity. Steve

[AUSGANG]

Thanks regular122! Yes, it is an oddity, there are "notches" on several of the outside corners of the cross and some traces of lines that make it look like a three piece but is definitely one piece; it must have been professionally cast from an actual award. Additionally there are two small perfectly round holes on the obverse and reverse, one in the one of the "v" shapes of the "W" and another in the top oak leaf. The holes do not go through to the other side. All in all a very curious item. I know that there are way more interesting variations with Imperial EKs than TR era and I'm starting to appreciate that more and more.

[Roglebk]

Thanks regular122! Yes, it is an oddity, there are "notches" on several of the outside corners of the cross and some traces of lines that make it look like a three piece but is definitely one piece; it must have been professionally cast from an actual award. Additionally there are two small perfectly round holes on the obverse and reverse, one in the one of the "v" shapes of the "W" and another in the top oak leaf. The holes do not go through to the other side. All in all a very curious item. I know that there are way more interesting variations with Imperial EKs than TR era and I'm starting to appreciate that more and more.

All one piece crosses i saw were stamped, not cast and do not think that a proper maker would cast a mold from another cross, only fakers would do this imo. Never saw a cross with the charateristics of yours either. This do not necessarily mean that this cross is fake, are you sure it's casted?

[saschaw]

I am not certain, but I do believe there were some bronze single piece pieces made late in the war.

Bronze is a metal most unlikely to be used in late WW1 for decorations. It was hardly needed for other, more important things. That's why so many state awards changed from copper and bronze to zink - in late WW1.

If the cross is cast, it in my opinion cannot be anything else but a fake, or a single made Zweitstück from a small jeweler. The common one piece crosses are die struck from professional makers.

[AUSGANG]

All one piece crosses i saw were stamped, not cast and do not think that a proper maker would cast a mold from another cross, only fakers would do this imo. Never saw a cross with the charateristics of yours either. This do not necessarily mean that this cross is fake, are you sure it's casted?

I have determined that it is not cast since there are no like divots in the metal from air bubbles. I have several cast EKs which have that characteristic. It must be stamped after all...

[AUSGANG]

casting divots on a TR piece

[streptile]

I am used to seeing one-piece EK2s in this style, which is sharply die-struck, but it is by no means the only style:





I like yours.

[regular122]

I make no mention of castings. All the ones I have seen have been stamped. The only known exception to this that I am aware is the crew of the SMS Koenigsberg, where an actual award was used for a mold and a casting made with crude detail. Good luck finding an original of one of those.

The piece I showed is a high quality stamping with sharp detail but they got the two halves mixed up.

Agree that Kriegsmetall was more common for late war state EM medals, but given that the EK2 had been multi-construction and silver framed, it had a certain better standard to it. Although I cannot say what date pieces of this type were made, it does appear that many variations of this type were made. Some were even very thin stampings that gave off a good facade appearance but not much behind.

Question Saschaw, if other medals were made of bronze during the war, what would preclude the EK2? Just curious, Steve

[saschaw]

Question Saschaw, if other medals were made of bronze during the war, what would preclude the EK2? Just curious, Steve

Why should anyone make an IRON cross from bronze? Those are IRON, while e.g. a Mecklenburg war merit cross is gilt bronze. That's it.

I'm sure noone did at least until war end in 1918. I know they did in the 30s and presume they started in the 20s. No clue why they should have started in "late war", when it was most unusual to use bronze for awards. To remain "Prussian": a common Prussian WW1 award from Bronze is the 3rd class of Red Cross medal. Struck in bronze until ~1915, then changed to iron, later to zink. Bronze has the been used again for post war re-strikes ("Spangenstücke"). Never ever again while WW1 was going on.