Hesse Ernst Ludwig Medal Ribbons

[Carl Christense]

Hesse's General Decoration Medal has the portrait of Ernst Ludwig on the obverse with different inscriptions on the reverse of bravery, merit, service, etc. I have noticed that some of the ribbons I have seen have wide red stripes on a blue field and others have thin red stripes on a blue field.

From what I have seen, medals for bravery and war merit have the wide red stripes while the medals for service have the thin stipes. Can anyone verify this is actually the case or am I off on this?

Regards

Carl C

[regular122]

Carl,

That has been my observation as well. These medals here seem to confirm it: L to R = Arbeit, Tapferkeit and Kriegsverdienst. Steve

[regular122]

Reverse. While I have seen the fatter stripes on the Tapferkeit medals, I have never seen the thin stripes on anything but the Arbeit medals. Steve

[saschaw]

Right, the ribbon with the wider red stripes is the war merit or bravery ribbon, while the standard ribbon is the same as Philipp order's.

regular122, your "Arbeit" medal looks cast. Never seen this "style" of medal on a common reverse but on all rare variations...

[regular122]

Saschaw,

I don't think it is cast but it is not mine. These came from Barry Turk's eMedals. I have little doubt about their authenticity. Barry is a very straight shooter. I can see no pock marks from the pics or any other tell-tale signs regarding casting. Is it just the different hair style or the type of reverse that makes it unusual?

I do have the Tapferkeit example and it has the exact ribbon shown on the Verdienst medal above, seeming to confirm that those two medals' ribbons were interchangeable. Steve

[saschaw]

Is it just the different hair style or the type of reverse that makes it unusual?

Well Steve, they are not actually "unusual" as they are floating around everywhere frequently, and I'm not 100% sure they're cast. But I am sure they are not old. They come with every more scarce reverse and also come gilt as Ludewig order's medals. I would not touch any.

[regular122]

Sachaw,

I don't dispute what you are saying, only trying to understand it. Could you please point out the things that concern you? For example, the 'scarce reverse' as compared to the not so scarce one. The market for these medals is not great but I suppose could be profitable for fakers. Even so, studying them in this forum would be useful for all or at least to me. Thanks for your comments about them, Steve

[Carl Christense]

Do either of you (or any other interested members) have a copy of Nimmergut's Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen? I recently purchased a copy and was looking at photos of 884, 885, 887, and 888. These are all Ernst Ludwig medals with different reverses.

To my untrained eye, two of the reverses (Tapferkeit and Kriegsverdienste) found in the book seem to have slightly wider leaves on the reverse and look like the above illustrated medals.

The book does not have an Arbeit illustrated. The book has two different Dienste medals illustrated which look to me like the leaves are slightly thinner (perhaps struck harder) like the above Arbeit medal's reverse.

Perhaps someone can comment on this as well. Are there two different die varieties for the reverse? If so, are they distinct depending on the type of medal?

Regards

Carl C

[Wild Card]

Hello Carl Christense,

Your observations regarding the different ribbons are correct. Actually this is all listed in Nimmergut’s Bänderkatalog.

With regard to the possibility of wider leaves on certain reverses, you may be on to something; but because of the inconsistent lighting and polish of the medals shown in Nimmergut's Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen, it is hard to say for sure.

Hopefully, other members can give us a positive answer.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

No, don't have NImmergut's magnus opum handy unfortunally. Oh by the way, this is Mr. Nimmergut's 70th birthday today!

Steve, I don't have pictures for comparision, sorry. I'm in the believe the averses of all different reverse strikes have to look identical. Though always these lose medals with rare reverses, offered everywhere that look different... the "patina" looks like carbon-paste(?) used on 1970s or 80s fakes, not like real silver patina.