Meybauer EK1

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Does anyone have an Imperial EK1 screwback with the "PM" mark on it, like this one shown below? If so, can you please PM me.

Thanks in advance guys.

Tom

[George Stimson]

I'll copy this thread into "Imperial" for maximum exposure.

[Thomas Durante]

Oh geez, you are right George, sorry. I guess you guys can tell I am not a "cross" guy

What I am looking for is to see if this is type of cross was actually manufactured in WW1 by Paul Meybauer. The "PM" on the screw seems to point in that direction, but is there other proof that it actually stands for Meybauer? Does the core match other Meybauer-marked crosses?

I would also venture a guess that it was infact made during WW1 since it has a silver content stamp, whereas WW2 made crosses were made of Nickel Silver with no real silver content at all. Is that a correct assumption?

Thanks in advance guys!

Tom

[Don D.]

Compare it to these here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=262535

[saschaw]

I have no proof but believe they are not necessarily made in WWI but rather between the wars, say 20s or 30s.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Don,

That link is great, but sadly I don't have an obverse picture of the cross I posted to be able to compare cores. However, the DRGM number on the screw matches all the ones posted in that thread, can it be said for certain that such a DRGM number belongs to Meybauer or do other makers use the same type of screw with the same number?

Thanks

Tom

[regular122]

Paul Meybauer definitely made crosses during the war.

Unless I am mistaken, the corresponding DRGM number stands for Deutsches Reichs-gebrauchsmuster which means German Reich Pattern or something like that. The number shown on this cross corresponds to Meybauer's design as registered.

Hansens have been marked with DRGM 650006.

The numbers only seem to surface with the corresponding manufacturers. I am not aware of a DRGM mark on a post-war cross. Meybauer did put its eagle-shield emblem on 1st Classes in the post-war period and I am not certain if the same mark was used on wartime crosses or not. The eagle emblem was certainly used during the war as found on U-Boat badges. Maybe Greg, Steve, Don, Tony or Kay could enlighten more. Steve

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

OK, I have done a little more searching and found 2 more, which are both marked "PM". All of these have the same DRGM#, which is promising. However, the cores don't seem to match the other Meybauer's posted in Don's thread I see specific differences in the crown, and then slight differences in the numerals.

So what do we have here, some fakes? Or, could all of these be originals and Meybauer used a few different EK1 cores for their WW1 EKs? Sounds like Meybauer definately made EKs during WW1 and continued to do so during the 20s and 30s, so is it likely that Meybauer had a few cores over the span of 30 years? Along the way, Meybauer started marking their crosses and screws with a "PM" maker mark. That sounds plausible to me, but I was hoping you guys could tell me with a level of certainty that these "PM" marked crosses are originals and part of a natural progression of die use during the 20s and 30s and even 40s.

Do the frames and/or cores of these "PM" marked crosses look to have been made during WW1, or between the wars, or WW2? Is there any way to tell something like this?

Thanks guys.

Tom

p.s., thanks for the info Steve, much appreciate and makes sense!

[Thomas Durante]

2

[Thomas Durante]

Another cross, from Winkler

[Thomas Durante]

Reverse

[Don D.]

Given the numbers of these made over the span of years there had to be several different core dies. This is a common occurance on many of the long time makers. Another possiblity is that the cores were outsourced. We just don't know for sure.

[Montgomery Burns]

those last 2 pictures off ek are 1930 production ( not sure )


the frames are more LDO like and need to be compaired with 1939 frames that came with maybauer those day's

you can even find these screws and plate from maybauer on a swastika core ek to


one off them has a scratch pm mark ( looks like it )
don't like that.

those PM screws you can buy loose on ebay and put it on everything you like
( if it is fitting )

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Well I lucked out and found the obverse shot of the 1st cross I posted at the top of this thread, here it is.

The obverse looks like a perfect match to the core and frame used on the other crosses shown in Don's thread. Specifically the crown design and the "4", how it seems to lean toward the "1" a bit. I feel much more comfortable now seeing these matching cores, although I agree with you Don that such a prolific maker like Meybauer probably had several core designs over the years.

Thanks for adding your thoughts Montgomery, but I am a little confused by your last statement. Are you saying that these "PM" marked screws are common and can be found on ebay regularly? Are you thinking they are reproductions? Are you doubting that any of the 3 crosses and screws posted here are wartime, or do you think they are post-1945?

Thanks for clearing this up.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

One other quick question: were 1914 EK1s that were produced during the period 1939-1945 made from real silver? Or were they produced in the same fashion as the 1939 EK1, with Nickel Silver instead of real silver?

In my opinion, this would be a way to date the "PM" mark to sometime before 1939 (WW2) if it can be found on EK1s made from Real Silver as opposed to the ones made during WW2 made from German Silver.

Thanks

Tom