How rare are Naval Commemorative Airship Badges? I seem to see more pilot badges but what is the collector veiw? Is there 100% proof that they were only made after the war?[FONT=Arial]
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Dear USGI,
Naval Commemorative Zepplin badges are quite rare. You rarely see them on the market. Unfortunately, like many Aviation badges of the period, they are heavily faked. They seem to command a higher price than the rarer Army version. I believe this is because the Navy badges have that nice crown on top of the wreath. (You might also want to conduct a search on other Imperial Avn badges on this forum. There is quite a controversy over the markings on wartime and post war badges for CE Junker for Pilot badges/Observer badges)
All Zepp badges, both Army and Navy, are post war. The authorization for both badges was post war, 1921 I believe.
Hope this helps.
GaryANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348 -
Thanks Gary. Yes I see a very heated debate on hallmarks. Have you pysically handled a 1960s made Naval Airship Badge? Are there any characteristics to look for?Comment
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Hi Guys, The Remembrance Badge for both Army and Navy was authorized on 1 August 1920 by the Reichs Defense Minister. The badge was designed and produced under contract by the Walter Schott firm. I have a very nice Navy badge which is made by 'Walter Schott fec.'Comment
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I have seen a number of marks on Zeppelin badges, but there are so many fakes it's hard to say what's what. I have seen in many of the sources that Meybauer and Juncker also produced these, and there may have been others. But watch out - there is reason to believe that Juncker never actually marked the badges they made, and I have yet to see a Juncker marked badge that I personally believe is correct. Just my opinion, of course, but it seems to me that virtually all of the Juncker marked pieces on the market are phony.
Tim"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" - President Merkin MuffleyComment
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RE: Juncker marks
Also, note that the majority of tha airship badges that do bear a Juncker mark have a serif at the top of the J. Near as I can tell, no authentic-made Juncker has this mark.Comment
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I agree with you, Rick. And now you and I have made a BUNCH of enemies of all those people who paid big money for Juncker pilot/observer/gunner/zeppelin badges with serifs on the top of the J. Oh, well - you can't please everyone.Originally posted by Rick Versailles
Tim"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!" - President Merkin MuffleyComment
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"One can draw the water from the well.......
.... but one cannot make the thirsty drink it"
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Hi Tim, I agree with you 100%Comment
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Can anyone post a close up photo of the serifs over the J? Is it true that no dealer has vet purchased pilot badges with a crown with moon hallmark? I read a good article by Robert Pandis that states a vet purchased Prussian pilot badge to LT Shumann had a crown mark but there wasn't solid proof that the badge was pre 1918 as the badge may have been bought and engraved as a hoax.Comment
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Juncker marks
Correct Juncker mark from my Prussian Air Gunner BadgeComment
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Second example
This one from a Juncker Observer (rayback) a little small, but the detail is evident.Comment
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More examples
This is an unmarked badge from Juncker, with only the crescent moon and 800 mark.Comment
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another example
here's another Juncker product, again with only the moon & 800Comment
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and back to the full hallmark
and another example of the full markComment
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note....
that in all the examples, the crescent moon and 800 marks are applied individually. Also note the consistency in the style of the marks. despite coming from 4 different examples, the moon and 800 stamps are identical. Also note the quality and elegance of the markings. The repop pieces have very crude marks. no delicacy to them at all.
All my badges are on the eStand (Imperial) now. Due to a change in circumstances, I'm selling them off.
All of the above examples are from the dozens of different real badges that have passed through my hands over the years.
My reserach on this subject, including multiple discussions with reputable & respected German dealers, is that there has never been a badge that could irrefutably have come direct from a recipient, or his heirs/family, that bore the "crown" mark.
By simple comparison of the multiple examples of pilot badges that can be found within our Imperial forum, a distinct difference in quality can be seen. The "crown" badges have nothing even close to the detail, depth, patina and beauty of a non-crown badge.
Mr. Pandis' theories are interesting and his own. A number of photographs on his site are from badges that either were/or are still in my posession over the years. He is entitled to his opinions. As are others.
To sum up the words of a famous French collector...
"Not in my collection"
To each his own.....Comment
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