Spot on: IMPERIAL FAKES!

[mp409mm]

New EK1 1870 fake just seen at ebay (being sold as repro)!

What is the difference between fake and copy,/repro, are they not the same thing?
Thank you.
Alf

[Dansson]

What is the difference between fake and copy,/repro, are they not the same thing?
Thank you.
Alf

Fake is when it is totally fake and nothing good in it,
reproduction is not the same thing as copy.
Copy is sometimes used falsley to say something is fake.

A copy can be an original cross.
Lets take for example a 1870 A-core which is the original cross, and the copy would be 1895 jubilee era cross for example. Both originals, but the other one is a original and the other is a original copy, usually later made.

Someone might be able to give an even more accuarate explanation!

[gregM]

This is a question that has been the soarse of some arguments. It has to do with
the word copy. It seems that that word is used differently in Europe than it
is over here.

Here in the states, the word copy is used pretty much the same as reproduction.

[mp409mm]

Thank You All, Now it is bit more clear.
Regards
Alf.

[pzrwest]

Jewelers and private purchased crosses etc could be called copies. I'm sure high ranking officers could have been awarded private purchased copies. Also some awardees would buy jewelers or private purchased copies to wear rather than wearing their awarded items for fear of being lost or damaged

[mp409mm]

Jewelers and private purchased crosses etc could be called copies. I'm sure high ranking officers could have been awarded private purchased copies. Also some awardees would buy jewelers or private purchased copies to wear rather than wearing their awarded items for fear of being lost or damaged

But do these called copies be considered as original collectable items ?
Thanks
Alf.

[gregM]

Jewelers and private purchased crosses etc could be called copies.

This is where I take notice.
Two Iron crosses made by the same maker, identical in every respect. One gets
awarded and the other gets sold. Why is one a copy?

[mp409mm]

This is where I take notice.
Two Iron crosses made by the same maker, identical in every respect. One gets
awarded and the other gets sold. Why is one a copy?

Yes, Why ? the least one can say is, not an awarded Cross or private purchase.
Alf.

[Dansson]

Copies are fully collectable items.
To answer that question why is one copy and why is other not in the same cross, the answer is both are the originals same as LDO and PKZ.
But when it comes to 1870 A-core and you compare it with a Jubilee cross made 1895 and looks completley different, then the Jubilee is a original copy made of the 1870, Original, copy, but not fake.

Fake is it when someone has made a cross to fool you that it is original and is for example made in a garage.

an other thing could be 1813 crosses and then the crosses made during 1835/40. The later later ones are copies of the original 1813 awarded piece, and for example to be given as replacement to the owner of an original cross who was awarded it and only for the owner.
But at the same time both are original, but other is the award piece.

The main difference could be between a copy and fake that the copy was more official and made for the recipent and only that the recipents could get it, and the fake is a non original made to fool collectors and has nothing to do with the formality and recipents of the cross. The fake is usually modern made.


I hope this is enough to explain my aspect of the words Copy and Fake

All the best,
Daniel

[mp409mm]

Copies are fully collectable items.
To answer that question why is one copy and why is other not in the same cross, the answer is both are the originals same as LDO and PKZ.
But when it comes to 1870 A-core and you compare it with a Jubilee cross made 1895 and looks completley different, then the Jubilee is a original copy made of the 1870, Original, copy, but not fake.

Fake is it when someone has made a cross to fool you that it is original and is for example made in a garage.

an other thing could be 1813 crosses and then the crosses made during 1835/40. The later later ones are copies of the original 1813 awarded piece, and for example to be given as replacement to the owner of an original cross who was awarded it and only for the owner.
But at the same time both are original, but other is the award piece.

The main difference could be between a copy and fake that the copy was more official and made for the recipent and only that the recipents could get it, and the fake is a non original made to fool collectors and has nothing to do with the formality and recipents of the cross. The fake is usually modern made.


I hope this is enough to explain my aspect of the words Copy and Fake

All the best,
Daniel

Hi Daniel, you could not have explained it better and I agree with you. thanks

Alf.

[Brian L.]

Copies are fully collectable items.
To answer that question why is one copy and why is other not in the same cross, the answer is both are the originals same as LDO and PKZ.
But when it comes to 1870 A-core and you compare it with a Jubilee cross made 1895 and looks completley different, then the Jubilee is a original copy made of the 1870, Original, copy, but not fake.

Fake is it when someone has made a cross to fool you that it is original and is for example made in a garage.

an other thing could be 1813 crosses and then the crosses made during 1835/40. The later later ones are copies of the original 1813 awarded piece, and for example to be given as replacement to the owner of an original cross who was awarded it and only for the owner.
But at the same time both are original, but other is the award piece.

The main difference could be between a copy and fake that the copy was more official and made for the recipent and only that the recipents could get it, and the fake is a non original made to fool collectors and has nothing to do with the formality and recipents of the cross. The fake is usually modern made.


I hope this is enough to explain my aspect of the words Copy and Fake

All the best,
Daniel

Despite you explanation, you can't properly use the word 'copy' as European, especially German collectors, who pretty much set the tone for this stuff will take exception to this term and see it as meaning non-original, non-period (meaning post-1945).

I prefer the German term 'Zweitstück' or 'second piece' or 'second issue' which can also involve the term 'private purchase' - i.e. contemporary to the period most of us collect (19th century up to 1945) whether issued or bought.

IMO, your use of the word copy is wrong. Yes, it isn't the same as a fake meant to deceive (for example a modern Museum Copy), but it still usually refers to a reproduction award never awarded to or bought by a recipient.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Fake/Repro Hessen Krieger Ehrenzeichen

[Beattie-B]

As per Don. D

"Fantasy combination of a Meybauer flight badge wreath and a Brunswick Hussar skull"

[the cyclist]

The ebay thread has been taken down; did anybody manage to save a close up picture for this reference source?

[Wild Card]

As per Don. D

"Fantasy combination of a Meybauer flight badge wreath and a Brunswick Hussar skull"

What the heck is this thing supposed to be? That story would be worth the price of admission.