Thought I'd share this photo from my collection. At first glance it's nothing special, a group of NCO's fom RIR 240 relaxing in a trench in mid-1916. Then I noticed that they were wearing the early square-dipped visor model of the M1916 steel helmet, considered by some helmet historians to be the first production type of this model. Several well-known photos of this helmet in wear do exist -the famous shot of a German infantryman next to a French corpse at Verdun for example- but I like this image as it also shows the Gummimaske worn around the neck, as well as the cloth belt carrier which pre-dated the gasmask tin ( although it continued to be worn as late as 1918, judging by period photos.) Look at that trench construction as well...
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Yup...tiny image. I'm working on a close-up as we speak.... -
Close-up
Square-dip M16's, gummimaskes and cloth belt carriers....Comment
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Absolutely beautiful pictures!!!! This one and the others of "the men you would not like to meet in the no-man's land"
Well, I already asked this question and got 1-2 "No!" answers... but with some hope I'll ask again: What do you think, it this a "Square dip"??
http://helmet.0catch.com/m16-1.jpg
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Portepee
And a nice clear shot of the Vizefeldwebel's Portepee worn on the bayonet frog.
GlennComment
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Helmets
Theodore and Glenn
Thanks for the replies. The link you posted doesn't seem to be working, but if it's the same helmet you asked about in the helmets forum I seem to recall that I thought it wasn't a square-dip. I've noticed that different manufactures sometimes have differing shapes to the helmet visor -helmets stamped TJ for example always seem to have a slightly gentler visor dip- without any of them actually being true square dips.
The only real square-dip I've ever seen personally used to be on display in the Durham Light Infantry Museum a few years ago. It was in a pretty poor state -it was displayed in a diorama as a piece of "trench debris"- but I think it had the characteristic cracks at the side of the visor that many surviving square-dips have.
Good view of the bayonet-knot as you say, Glenn. I'm pleasantly amazed at how clearly the Luger holster and trench knife have cpme out as well.
All the best
Paul.Comment
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Great photo. I would vote that these are not square-dips. The only one I saw was in Germany, and it had a <u>very</u> sharp down-turn. It was very distinctive. TonyComment
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Fair point. I'm genuinely not clutching at straws here (honest...) but does the helmet of the guy on the left (as we look at the photo) have a more distinctive square-dip than the other soldier's? Or is it the angle he's standing at when the shot was taken? At second glance, even if his isn't a square-dip either, it does look markedly different to his comrades.Originally posted by Tony & Kaiser
Thanks for the comments
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I went downstairs and photographed two M17 helmets, two different makers, note the differences in height and curve of the dip. Tony
<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/dips.jpg>Comment
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Oh well I was just hoping that someone will be so kind to lie me that it is a real square dip
Yes, indeed, there are big differences even between helmets from the same size!
Speaking of helmets, gas masks, stick grenades and men you would not like to meet in the "no man's land", here is a group of Bulgarians at the Southern Balkan front, April 8th 1918. A pity the picture is as bad as possible...
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Here is an example of a "square-dip" M16 helmet I used to own (it now belongs to another collector). It was an ET64 and had the earlier more gloss green paint.
And...here is a similar later pattern M16, again an ET64 with the standard curve transition to the lower apron. This helmet had the matte pea-green paint.
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It looks to me like the first photo does show a square dip helmet on the right. According to Baer, these were the earliest version of the M1916, and tended to crack at the curve of the visor piece. The design and the dies were changed to round off the edge, which relieved the stress during manufacture. Good catch!Comment
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Quality Responses
Some great responses on this one!
Theodore, excellent photo The first shot I personally have seen of Bulgarian soldiers like this. If anything it shows how the soldier's of the other Central Powers all began to take on a German look by 1917/18. You certainly wouldn't want to come up against the big guy in the middle...
Tony, yet more fantastic camos from the bunker (no wonder I can't get a decent one in the UK, you've got 'em all
) and the photo does prove the point very well. When I put my M1918 next to my M1916 helmet like this, the M18 looks positively square-dip by comparison, even though of course it's not...as you say, just down to different makers.
Darryl, what can I say (except why did you sell it....on second thoughts, why didn't you sell it to me..!
) excellent, the best example of a square-dip I've seen anywhere, books included. The other helmet's not bad either...
Thanks also to Doug and everyone else who responded.
All the best
Paul.Comment
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Paul,Originally posted by Paul BSome great responses on this one!
Darryl, what can I say (except why did you sell it....on second thoughts, why didn't you sell it to me..! ) excellent, the best example of a square-dip I've seen anywhere, books included. The other helmet's not bad either...
Yes, I sometimes wonder that myself. However, you can't collect everything and I decided to collect only the black Allgemeine and VT SS helmets. Both helmets went to good homes...the M16 square-dip went to the UK, into a very well known collector's hands and the standard M16 stayed here in Canada.
Cheers,Comment
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