Prinzen on Uniform

[Brian S]

I'm thinking these were Prinzen sized awards. General's uniform. I always associated prinzen sized with non dress uniform. Portrait would have been mid 1840's. Attention to details were the rule. Thoughts?

[streptile]

I always associated prinzen sized with non dress uniform. Portrait would have been mid 1840's. Attention to details were the rule. Thoughts?

Hi Brian. Nice picture, thank you for posting. Prinzen awards I've seen in photos and paintings are worn almost exclusively on dress uniforms, and by children.

[gregM]

Are those Austrian ribbon bows on #2 and #5 ?

[Brian S]

Are those Austrian ribbon bows on #2 and #5 ?

2nd Award: Roter Adler-Orden III. mit Schleife

[Brian S]

The final award, and it's sad no one's here to argue with me on this theory...

The Cross of Saint Vladimir
The color of the order ribbon is red with a black border.
Fourth Class - The red cross of a smaller size on the neck.

He won it... And I'm thinking looking at the details on the original portrait, this is it.

[Tiger 1]

Brian,

I'm always curious how much 'artistic license' was taken by the artist when the illustration was made.

A question I have not been able to satisfactorily answer is whether the uniforms and decorations are true to scale of what was actually worn. Or, as in many cases of portraiture, are these items just an artistic representation with less emphasis on the accuracy we as collectors demand?

Just some thoughts,

Tony

[gregM]

Oredr of St. Vladimir

wikipedia--" People who had been awarded the Oredr of St. Vladimir
for military merit bore it with a special fold on the ribbon - With a bow"

[gregM]

RAO3 mit schleife.

Thanks Brian for the clarification. The reason I asked is that the ribbon's (bows)
in the picture look like the common ladder pattern seen on almost all Austrian ribbons.

[Brian S]

Oredr of St. Vladimir

wikipedia--" People who had been awarded the Oredr of St. Vladimir
for military merit bore it with a special fold on the ribbon - With a bow"

I missed the bow relation to this award but this is what made the most sense.

Thanks Greg. You're the best. Every once in a while it's nice to figure something out from a blur.

[VtwinVince]

Brian, do you have info on Franz August's career? Was he at Leipzig, or La Belle Alliance?

[Brian S]

Well aren't you the smart guy


6. 2. 1812 Sekondelieutenant
1813/15 Feldzug: Gefecht am Höselberg bei Eisenach (verwundet), bei La Chaussée (E.K. II), Schlacht be Ligny, Belle Alliance

[Brian S]

La Belle Alliance is an inn situated a few miles south of Brussels in Belgium.
On the morning of June 18, 1815 the inn became Napoleon Bonaparte's headquarters for the Battle of Waterloo.
After the battle, at around 21:00, the Duke of Wellington and Gebhard Blücher met close to the inn signifying the end of the fighting.
Blücher, the Prussian commander, suggested that the battle should be remembered as la Belle Alliance, to commemorate the European Seventh Coalition of Britain, Russia, Prussia, the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Sardinia, and a number of German States which had all joined the coalition to defeat the French Emperor. Wellington, who had chosen the field and commanded an allied army which had fought the French all day, instead recommended Waterloo, the village just north of the battlefield, where he himself had spent the previous night, commenting that it would not do to name the battle after the loser's command post. Nevertheless in 1815 the Rondell plaza in Berlin was renamed Belle-Alliance-Platz to commemorate the victory.
The building is currently used on Friday and Saturday evenings as a night club.

Let's disco...

[Brian S]

Brian,

I'm always curious how much 'artistic license' was taken by the artist when the illustration was made.

A question I have not been able to satisfactorily answer is whether the uniforms and decorations are true to scale of what was actually worn. Or, as in many cases of portraiture, are these items just an artistic representation with less emphasis on the accuracy we as collectors demand?

Just some thoughts,

Tony

I'm guessing, Tony, absolutely no artistic license. This was the only record of one's existence. Artistic in the sense that warts and scabs and seeping wounds would most certainly be exercised, but not the overall face, the scale of awards, the awards themselves, etc. I have five portraits of this great man and I believe them all to be of reality.

Remember even in civilian dress you didn't have the local butcher wearing EKII minis, it would have been unheard of. Official award or not you didn't earn it you didn't wear it.

It's POST WWI that was the bane of the collectors. Copies, fakes, collector examples, etc., all for us to cry over as 70+ years later we're here to try to digest.

But paintings of the period, I believe to be absolutely accurate. You didn't hang a portrait of the local Postman wearing an EKI, PlM etc. he didn't earn. That would have been just embarrassing.

[Brian S]

RAO3 mit schleife.

Thanks Brian for the clarification. The reason I asked is that the ribbon's (bows)
in the picture look like the common ladder pattern seen on almost all Austrian ribbons.

Here you go Greg, you want to see Great great great Granddaddy's RAO w/Bow

http://www.vonetzel.com/impweb/viewmystery.aspx

Manufacturer code is : 1

Decoration code is: 5

Actually it is his but it really was grandfather's, same one just 100 years to the newer.

I won't show this one often. It's too special

[gregM]

Outstanding
Thank you for showing it.

You have a very interesting family history.